Talk:Apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic science fiction

as far as a category for Zardoz, how about 'societal bifurcation', in which the society splits, a bit like the HGWells Time Machine, Eloi and Morlocks etc I'm sure there must be other examples of this in SF. fojxl 01:25 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)

As I understand it, the categories relate to the type of apocalypse that the story is post-. So "societal bifurcation" isn't really helpful unless it was somehow the societal bifurcation that brought about the collapse of civilisation. Paul A 02:16 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)

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Does The Day After fit here?-- Error

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Removed this:

• The Andrei Tarkovsky film Stalker (based on the short-story Roadside Picnic)

IIRC correctly, the basic premise is the aftermath of an alien visitation of some sort, that left behind a region filled with incredibly dangerous, utterly incopmprehensible phenomena, which treasure seekers explore hoping to get back alive with something valuable: not exactly a post-apocalypse -- Malcolm Farmer 11:43, 12 Oct 2003 (UTC)

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I'm wondering: after looking at the Vampire Hunter D entry, I recall there's a lot of Japanese pop culture, especially anime and manga, that deals with apocalyptic fiction, almost too many to count. The ones I can name of the top of my head are Akira, Fist of the North Star, Evangelion, Grey, Appleseed, Ghost In The Shell, Battle Angel Alita/Gunnm, and that's already getting to be a long list.

I've avoided putting them since there's more than this and plenty that make references to total devastation (For example, Macross' second half, where Misa and Hikaru tour a battle-scarred Earth that looks very similar to Hiroshima after the bomb). I only included Dragon Head and Last Days of Planet Earth as they're live action films. I'm wondering how to continue, just add more anime titles until it chokes the page, keep it to famous and direct (i.e. definite mentions of WW3, etc. in the story) examples, or leave them out. I'd rather not excise them completely, as apocalyptic literature and imagery is such a common occurance in Japanese manga, anime and cinema.

Also, I think DADES's example should be limited to WW3, and not Pandemic. The plague that kills the owls (amongst other creatures) mentioned in the book is part of WW3, perhaps as a biological weapons hazarded by both sides, in addition to the Synthetic Freedom Fighters and nuclear weapons. Also, the war is not mentioned in Blade Runner, just the source material, it seems. --YoungFreud 04:15, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Since GitS and Gunnm were mentioned, would anyone consider the (post-)apocalyptic genre a subgenre of cyberpunk? These two seem cyberpunk to me, and I didn't recognize GitS as post-apocalyptic. I also encountered someone referring to Nineteen Eighty-Four and Brave New World as cyberpunk, which I think is too far reaching. -- Claw 21:34, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider apocalyptic or post-apocalyptic fiction a subgenre of cyberpunk. I think they share some elements, but in and of itself, post-apocalyptic fiction is a seperate entity from cyberpunk. Many cyberpunk genre stories use post-apocalyptic settings, but many post-apocalyptic stories don't use cyberpunk genre elements.

I mentioned GITS, since, IIRC, the manga and the GITS:SAC both take place after World War III (I believe mentioned by name in the book, and just mentioned as "the war" in the SAC episode "Jungle Cruise"), although WWIII is not as final as everyone thought it would turn out (I think the only real evidence of major damage is balkanization of many countries, excluding Japan, Britian, and perhaps the US, and the formation of new ones like the Gavel Republic and Genova), so I wouldn't really include that as a post-apocalyptic title, now that you mention it. Appleseed, Shirow's other famous story, OTOH, concerns efforts by a biological androids' and their human masters/servants' attempt to bring order to the world following a series of devastating world wars, so it would probably should be included. Gunnm is very much both post-apocalyptic, in that it has the visual and thematic references, and cyberpunk. However, I would probably have to rewrite a section, "After the fall of space civilization", to include "or neglect from space civilization", to take in account the Last Order chapter, which has a thriving transhumanity from Earth orbit, all the way out to Jupiter but has all but forgotten the lives of the inhabitants on Earth's surface, save an elite few. --YoungFreud 01:34, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Science Fiction?

Can we change the article focus from "science fiction" to just "fiction"? There are works here that are not "science fiction", and there are a lot of fictional works that deal with the end of Civilization. Currently a lot of articles link to End of the world and they need disambiguation, this article seems the appropriate place to link in to on any subject dealing with fictional ends of the world (civilization), could be covered in this article, not just science fiction. Thoughts? Stbalbach 03:37, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Can't most works of apocalyptic or post-apocalyptic fiction be considered a form of science fiction? or at least soft science fiction?

Even many 'fantasy' novels that fall into the post-apocalyptic category, such as the Wheel of Time when relating to past events, mention science fiction veriety flying cars and weapons, as well as other technology.

One series I have read (Gene Wolfe's "The Book of the New Sun" progresses. The first book is a 'fantasy' novel. As the post-apocalyptic nature of the world is further revieled, the series becomes 'science fantasy' and finally 'science fiction'.

Those cases in which the world (or civilization) is harmed by magical, or other non-science fiction circumstances are rare, from what I've seen. The closest thing I can think of, are The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant but that is another world that is destroyed, not Earth or her people.

Also; apocalypse does occur in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." But (from what I recall) it is mentioned sparingly. And (notwithstanding the plot point in which it occurs) effects the plot little. Should it truly be considered a work of apocalyptic science fiction? Depherios 11:57, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)