Talk:Electronics

I don't know what to do about this, but 1) the opening definition on this page is circular--electronics is the study of electronic devices and 2)electrical engineering is not a subdivision of electronics; almost the opposite is true.

As to 2): One common way of putting the distinction between electrical and electronic engineering is to say that electrical engineers deal with the problems of large currents and electronics engineers deal with small ones (this is from a Web encyclopedia, and frankly, I'd never heard of it, though it makes a certain sense). Another way of making the distinction is to say that electronics concerns the modification of electrical currents to carry information.

Electrical engineering is concerned with power transmission, conversion from AC to DC, stepping voltage up or down, earthing a power supply, et al. One has to do these things to wire a house, build an electric fan, or design the ignition circuit for an automobile engine. It's nothing to do with electronic devices.

As to 1), I suspect the problem is mostly stylistic. This is not a dictionary, as someone keeps saying. So what's needed at the start is not a definition, per se, but a topic sentence. But a circular definition doesn't work.

I'd re-write, but I'm not sure what the acceptable definition of electronics is.

the above statements about the difference between electrical engineering and electronics is.. less than correct. electrical engineers design/build/study electrical circuits, which are the same things as electronic circuits. the distinctions made above is more of a distinction between power electrical engineering, and every other sort of electrical engineering. i'm going to try and fiddle the definition to reflect what they teach you in "intro to electrical engineering" --User:jkominek

I tried to find out what is being taught in "intro to Electrical engineering" in mine as well as other universities. It came out that major component is related with power, circuit theory, etc. If we look at departmental arrangements then it can be said that "electrical engg" includes power, comm, electronics, control, etc. But from a amateur point of view, electronics may not be concerned with circuit theory... --User:Ashutosh Saxena

The American Heritage Dictionary of English (searched via dictionary.com) defines the adjective electronic as

Of, based on, operated by, or otherwise involving the controlled conduction of electrons or other charge carriers, especially in a vacuum, gas, or semiconducting material.

As you can see, this definition leaves room for interpretation. Note that the distinction does not rest on the difference between high power and low power, or on information versus power transmission. How we put this information in the article is another question. -- Heron

It is insignificant whether the electrons move in a particular medium or even whether they move, but significant that their movement is controlled. Waveguy

Yes, and the means of control is also significant. Controlling the current by switching a mechanical switch on and off, or by using electromechanical devices such as relays and thermostats, is not electronics, but controlling the current by means of another current or voltage without using moving parts is electronics. -- Heron

I differ. It is problematic to try to split hairs that way, especially when you scale down to nanotechnology. At some scale, all such devices are valid electronics; though not necessarily solid state. Where do you draw the line? -- Waveguy

You have a point there. I forgot about nanotechnology. However, you wouldn't say that a relay was an electronic device, would you? There must be a line somewhere, even if it's not where I said it was. There are people who call themselves electrical engineers and others who call themselves electronic engineers, and Wikipedia needs to explain the difference, even if the distinction is blurred.

Also, I'm a bit troubled by your claim that at a small enough scale, "all such devices are valid electronics". I think that's going too far. Think about the electrical processes in electrolysis, or the signalling in nerve cells. Those things happen at atomic or molecular scales, but most people don't call them electronics. I think we are in danger of just throwing examples and counter-examples at each other, but if that's the only way we can reach a consensus, then so be it. On the other hand, we could just give up trying to make the distinction, and say "Here are three lists of electrical/electronic topics. List A contains those that more than 90% of Wikipedians who expressed a preference class as electronics, etc..." -- Heron

don't forget that electronic, electromechanical, and electrochemical devices all appear in many modern electronic circuits even on macro scale. if you try to draw any line, someone will blur it. 209.47.103.56

Analog Multiplier

Trying to find a home for an orphan, I added analog multiplier to the Analog Circuits section of the page. I'm not sure it fits there. Anyone who knows, please move it appropriately! Anthropos 19:02, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)