Talk:Evanescence
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I removed the reference to "Tourniquet" because actually that songs is the perfect counter-example for their Christianity. The song is about a person dying and saying "Jesus, I want to commit suicide and that would send me to hell, right? How fair can this be?". It's sure not a very Christian point of view...
- Oh come on now. It's totally a Christian song. "Am I too lost to be saved?" "My God, my tourniquet, return to me salvation." "do you remember me, lost for so long?" "will you be on the other side, will you forget me?" - yes, it's a Christian song with questions, but it's still very much part of Christian discourse - these are Christian questions. That doesn't make them a "Christian band" as such, but the article never said it did - it just cites this as an example of why that label has been applied to them. There are other reasons - their stuff was for a short time sold in Christian stores that don't sell secular stuff, ie see [1] (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=17904) Evercat
I know that they were sold in Christian stores and that they were actually sold by their label as Christian rock. I'm not saying they were not, but Tourniquet remains... well, not an anti-christian song of course, but a song that questions, and I wouldn't use that as an example of their Christian themes. If I wanted to name a song for this I'd rather use something else, something older (much easier to find Christian themes when David Hodges was still in the band). Lazarus Long 14:53, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- Well. I still want Tourniquet mentioned as it's the one with the most obviously religious content on Fallen, the only Evanescence album that most people have heard... I've tried to redescribe it a little so the reader knows it's not exactly a "traditional" Christian song. :-) Evercat
- I think it should be covered too..regardless of how "Christian" it is. I actually think it's a great song, and I'm atheist. Stancel 22:19, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
Well written! :-) Lazarus Long 11:43, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Believe it or not, "Tourniquet" is actually a cover song. Rocky Gray wrote it for his Christian death metal band, Soul Embraced. --Beau99 20:21, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I guess the page needs a rewrite, the Christian/Non-Christian debate is mucch to a POV subject and rather irrelevant actually if we want to write facts about the band. Lazarus Long 08:53, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
- There's no such thing as a POV subject. And how's it irrelevant? The Evanescence-as-Christian-band thing has been much discussed. Evercat 14:14, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
What I meant is that out of four paragraphs dedicating one (the longest) to this controversy is a little bit too much IMO. Sure, if the paragraphs were twenty I'd certainly agree that it would be relevant. But you're right, it's not a matter of removing, it's a matter of adding, so I'll add somemore things about the band as soon as I can, sorry for removing. Lazarus Long 14:53, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I see Ben Moody's been removed... actually *officially* he is still member of the band, I don't know whether he is to be removed from here, or left there (Adding a note saying he left the tour and, probably, the band) until it becomes official Lazarus Long 13:06, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- It's all but official. Wind-up released a press release regarding his leaving, and Amy says she still doesn't know what he's been doing, but that it was probably for the best. Pipian 16:18, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)
The last (and only) press release I could track down from Wind-Up about this matter was the one saying that Ben was leaving the *tour*, not the band. And since then nothing official. Amy says that she doesn't know what Ben's up to only in interviews, but officially Ben is still a member and so appears on the official site (run by Wind-up). If you are sure there's this other press release then ok (but I'd like to see it), otherwise I think we should place Ben back in the page until we know better. Lazarus Long 00:46, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)
In the meanwhile everything's gone official of course... and we should add Terry Balsamo in the page, I'll do it right away. Lazarus Long 12:20, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
[moved from article]
Their first DEBUT album is Fallen. Origin was just a CD with some demo's. Some demo's are more than 4/5 years old! Origin does not fit in the discography. Amy Lee: "Origin is ABSOLUTELY NOT AN ALBUM!" You can download songs and that's fine with Miss Lee. - 82.161.109.109
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Goth metal or not?
Blank assertions that they are or aren't goth metal aren't sufficient; we need basic tests. Googling on 'evanescence "goth metal"' gathers considerable evidence that they are generally accepted in that category. (Also, I dare anyone to tell Evanescence from Lacuna Coil on musical terms alone.)
Now, to remove it, we'd need greater evidence that they are not generally considered "goth metal". That is, actual referenced evidence against, rather than my opinion or your opinion. I don't actually deeply care either way, but blank assertion doesn't cut it.
What do we have to hand? - David Gerard 10:32, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Well, to start off, they're not metal. They're alt. rock and nothing more. Just because they are heavy, doesn't mean they're metal. Metal requires a certain song structure, plus extended guitar solos. Evanescence has neither element in any of their music. Secondly, Amy Lee has gotten very pissed at people calling them goth. Their first "official" website was entitled We're not goth.
--Beau99 20:19, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- First point: your blank assertion again. I hope you see that's much more towards original research than anything referenced or verifiable. Second point: The Sisters of Mercy claim loudly not to be goth either. Reductio ad absurdum. - David Gerard 23:17, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Fine. It's just that I'd rather trust the band over the media. Also, if you take a look at Metal Archives (http://www.metal-archives.com), Evanescence is not listed on the website. People who have submitted Evanescence under the goth metal category have gotten chastised for being a waste of time. --Beau99 05:34, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- BTW: a certain song structure and extended guitar solos? I'd like to see you say that to Motörhead and keep your teeth ... - David Gerard 23:48, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I think the problem is what each person's interpretation of what goth metal is. I consider them goth on basis of the (unreleased) song "Lies". It has a goth sound. Plus, most of their songs have that depressing feeling I've come to associate with the goth culture. I don't think it's a bad thing to say Evanescence is a goth band, it's just a need to classify them. Sometimes I classify Nightwish, Within Temptation, and Evanescence as New Age. Whatever you call it, it's all the same. Dark Reality
I think that what defines whether they are a goth rock band or not is whether any goths agree with you on the matter. I think most would agree that it is not goth due to it's mainstream nature however many do listen to them so I think it's safe to say that it is "accepted within the goth subculture" Leighman
The forbidden song rumor
I thought this might be an interesting place to ask, since a lot of fans seem to be rather emotional about this.
Last year there was a rumor going around that the band don't want the fans to listen to an old demo called "You." While this song cannot be found on their album, it's as easily available on the file sharing networks as their other unreleased material. Users of the eMule/eDonkey/Overnet "ed2k" network can download a "discography" which includes everything, including the supposedly forbidden song.
I've searched and searched and can find nothing to validate this rumor. Evanescence.com has an extensive FAQ, and there is no mention of a forbidden song. Evanescence do not have a forum, but they do have two contact emails. Emails sent asking about this went unanswered. I found a large fan forum, and was banned under three different accounts for merely asking. This merely made me want to learn more. I emailed Rolling Stone, and they'd never heard of the rumor.
It seems that this rumor was made up by a fan wanting to see how far it would spread, possibly an admin or mod on the forum which is banning members for asking about it. That, or the band actually made the request to a small group of people before they got popular, and gave up once they got popular, realizing that the now millions of fans would want to hear it and would not be discouraged by such a request. But I can't believe that there ever was such a request, if there's no reference of it on any news sites. When I look up Evanescence news, I can find plenty of sources about when Amy Lee slipped and made the reference to Cold vocalist Scooter Ward's rehabilitation. Amy Lee learned that she can't really say anything without it being reviewed and picked apart. So... if she made a request for fans not to listen to a song, wouldn't that be published somewhere?
I'm certainly not trying to convince fans there is no request. But before you jump down my throat for asking, ask yourself where you heard the rumor, if you did. Did you read it on a forum? Did someone tell you on AIM? Or did you see it on the news or on a reputable site? I challenge every fan who believes that rumor to prove it's true.
I am a fairly big fan of Evanescence. I like their sound. I like a lot of their unreleased songs. "You" is a decent song, but there's a lot better ones. It's not my favorite. I just want to know the truth about it. Because until I hear more than unsubstantiated rumors from preteen fans, whenever someone tells them they like Evanescence, I'm going to help them get all Evanescence's unreleased stuff. Not the stuff they've released, mind you. If they like Evanescence, they owe it to this great band to buy Fallen, and the upcoming live CD/DVD. If Origin is remastered or just re-released, I'll strike that from the discography disc I give friends, and encourage them to buy that as well. But there are a lot of old, unreleased songs, and the fans deserve to hear it. I just want to make it clear that I am against the piracy of good music. Dark Reality
- The request to not hear the forbidden song was made by Ben Moody, a few months before the official message board went under. The song was leaked by their former manager Brad Caviness, whom they've since cut ties with. So, no it's not a rumor. The request did happen. It's just that Ben and Amy wanted to keep it quiet, so a possible uproar wouldn't happen.
I'm with you on the piracy issue. I buy the new stuff, whenever I can afford it. But then there's the older songs, which will never be availible again on any CD. Downloading those isn't piracy, so I say go right ahead. --Beau99 18:06, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- re: Forbidden song: I thought it had to be something like that. I did notice they didn't have a message board when I looked at their site. Which brings me to my next point. Firstly, Ben Moody is no longer a member; sad as it may be, he's hardly in a position to dictate how the band conducts its business. Secondly, and more importantly, the band have not made the request publicly. There is in fact no verifiable record the request was ever made since the board went down and the site did not copy the request to their extensive FAQ.
So if it's not a rumor, to what extent is it an issue? Just something for bored junior high age girls to fight about, or do you think the band takes any real issue with fans listening to this song? All I've seen is a few immature threats on message boards to those who have heard the song, but most people I've asked in real life had never heard the song, and then listened to it without reservation.
On another issue, what's the status on the older stuff? Beau99 you say they will never be available on CD. Do you think that, at some point, Windup and/or Evanescence might release it? Either as a box set or as filler albums between new albums? Or gradually, like how Missing, Farther Away, and Breathe No More can be found on Anywhere But Home. Breathe No More and Anything For You are two of the best unreleased Ev songs, I'm glad to see one of them see the light of day. --Dark Reality, but not logged in
OK I need your help ! i am a studant studying the acesses to music course in england! i have an assignment due in soon on evanescence and i need to know the following :- 1. how the album fallen was marketed on tv 2. what magazines they appered in leading up to the release of fallen 3. how the internet helped in the promotion of fallen 4.were there any price incentives involved in the sale of fallen (buy one get one free ect...) 5.do you think it was relesed at the correct time + who was ther competion at the time of relese. 6. who did they aim there advertising at (age wise) who was there target audience 7. was ther a tour attached to the album 8.what kind of inteviews came from the relese of fallen (what tv shows did they appear on ) 9. was ther any scandle surrouding the band at the time of relese. i would be very greatfull for any help you could give me thank you xx kirstydignam@aol.com contact me there with any information xx
Older Material
Well, Amy has already said that songs like Understanding, Bleed, Where Will You Go, etc, won't be remade.
Re: the forbidden song, I'd like to know more about the request as well. However, one mention of it on Evboard results in an instant ban. I like that place too much to risk it. And you're correct that Ben Moody doesn't have any authority over the song, but having spoken to Brad Caviness (the guy who leaked the song) via e-mail, I'd say Ben is correct. --Beau99 09:04, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The picture
I know the picture doesn't matter much but I think it would be better if we had a bigger picture, perhaps a larger version of this one or an album cover. Stancel 22:25, 21 May 2005 (UTC)