Talk:Integrated development environment

I made a few tweaks to the article. Also, I would like to list some Java IDEs. I do nearly all my Windows programming in Java, so I'd like to see some mention of Borland's JBuilder, Sun's Forte, IBM's VisualAge, et al. Ed Poor

Watcher (Talk) (replaced 'text editor' with 'source code editor')

The editing component in every IDE I know serves as a general purpose editor, for editing not just source code, but also configuration files, XML files, documents, README and LICENSE files, etc. This includes Microsoft Visual *, KDevelop, etc. -- SamRolken

In other words, it's a full text editor not just a source code editor. -- Derek Ross

Isn't every source code editor also a normal text editor? -- Panzi 12:29, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think a "source code editor" is more advanced than a "text editor." That is, a source code editor is a specific kind of text editor. Of course a source code editor can be used to edit text, since source code is text. But a source code editor has advanced features as opposed to a text editor, such as syntax highlighting and (some have) things like "IntelliSense." IMHO, "source code editor" is more specific than "text editor." :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 14:16, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

According to that definition Microsoft Word is a "source code editor". After all it has syntax checking, Intellisense, and other advanced features. But then any sufficiently advanced text editor can be configured with syntax highlighting, etc. The term, "source code editor", may be more specific than "text editor" but is the program that it refers to really something fundamentally different ? -- Derek Ross | Talk

IDE == command line?

I think in modern terms, and IDE is considered something beyond command line tools. The History section seems to compare IDEs to keypunch type programming, and implies that command line tools are a rudimentary form of IDE. While that may be true, technically (depending on your definition of "integrated" and "environment"), I think that in the minds of most programmers, and IDE is something for developing software that is more integrated than a bunch of command line tools. I'd put something to this effect in, but am afraid of it coming off too POV in the classic text editor vs. IDE flamewar (a war in which I favor the text editor side).

I think the I should be emphasized in IDE. While command-line tools may comprise part of one's development environment, they certainly aren't "integrated." I think that discussion should be removed, or modified to emphasize the fact that such a setup isn't integrated. Just MHO. — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:35, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Command-line develpment tools can be integrated right into the command environment. From the user's point of view, it was difficult to tell where the command-line ended and the development environment began with a menu driven OS like the UCSD p-System or with a completely command-based system like the DTSS. Such a system can be so seamlessly integrated that the command environment is the development environment. What really counts with integration is whether a group of development tools have been designed to work together and just how compatible their files and user interface are. If they have been designed to work so that they appear modeless (ie you don't have to leave "text editor mode" in order to enter "execute mode" or "debug mode" -- and vice-versa) they are definitely integrated. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:06, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

OK, well I guess that, historically and theoretically speaking, command line programs and an OS could be considered integrated (or used to created an integrated environment). The point I was making is that if you say "IDE" to a programmer, 9 times out of 10, they will say Visual C/Delphi/Eclipse/Netbeans/etc, and maybe 1 time out of 1000, they will say "make, vi and cc". I'm not saying get rid of the historical section, but it probably needs to be expanded so it doesn't sound like it was written in 1974. I may take a stab at it if I get time (obviously that would make clear what I'm saying). User:Davetron5000

I would have difficulty in thinking of "make, vi and cc" as an integrated environment because they are not modeless. In particular vi has modes within modes. In contrast, DTSS, because of its seamlessnes seems closer to the concept of a modern Visual Studio type IDE than the original Turbo Pascal IDE which resembles a p-System menu for starting a Wordstar edit mode, or for compiling or running programs. -- Derek Ross | Talk 02:38, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

My Edits

Having just realized I provided no edit notes, I'll put them here. I reworded the History section, maintaining the information there and discussing what the term currently means (per my pervious comment). I also changed the "Tile-based" to "Visual Programming", which the more common term (tile-based makes me think of Ultima III) and slightly reworded the intro paragraph, although I think if it were re-done to communicate what features an IDE provides rather than specific tools, it might eliminate the "text editor" vs. "code editor" debate above. I considered putting in a "IDE vs. text editor Flamewar" bit, but I don't know how interesting that really is.

Looks good. Cheers -- Derek Ross | Talk 02:42, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)