Talk:Isabella of Castile
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"Isaabela" is a typo, isn't it? Probably "Isabela" which I don't remember seeing as a person name, but as the island La Isabela -- Error
Link text emphasizes and should not be used for every thing or person that does or does not have a page.
It's an error, Isabella is the name in italian, not in spanish. The name in spanish is Isabel, in englis is Elizabeth.
- In englis she has never been called "Elizabeth" but always "Isabella" whether that"s right or not. Wetman 01:09, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Isabella is italian and she wasn't queen of Italy, she was queen of Spain. It's very simple:
- English: Elizabeth
- Spanish: Isabel
- Italian: Isabella
Isabella is not correct, is the worst form.
Please, could you write the names in their language? Isabella is Isabel, Ferdinan is Fernando, Peter is Pedro, and so on... it's quite disturbing to talk about someone with a few names. ---silviam
- Ferdinand could also be Ferran since he was Count of Barcelona. What was his first language? After all the Trastámaras were form Castile, weren't they?
'Isabella vs Elizabeth
In spanish, if you search Isabel I, you go to... [[1] (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_I)] Isabel in spanish is Elizabeth in english. In wich language is Isabella, I think is italian. If Elizabeth I of England is "Isabel I de Inglaterra", in spanish, "Isabel I de Castilla" in english must be "Elizabeth I of Castile". Why the name in italian?.
- It would more sense for her English name to be Elizabeth, but she has been known as Isabella in English for centuries so that's her name. — Chameleon 09:11, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Understanding the use of Categories and their subs
- Organizational note: this section and the contents (before my reply) were first placed by IZAK on my Talk page. I transfered them here as this is the appropriate place to discuss editorial disagreements of an article. Thanks. --AladdinSE 11:00, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
Hi, in your edits of Isabella of Castile you are misusing the Categories system. A "main category" does not always "eliminate" any "sub-categories". Actually, if you have a subject listed as a "sub-category", then you follow the link of the "sub-category" on the "sub-categories" page to see what "main category" it falls under. To do it your way would mean that any "sub-category" can be "eliminated" merely by claiming, as you do, that the main category is enough (sometimes it may be, but often it is not). However, when an article is also specifically linked to a uniquely different subject such as Category:Jewish Spanish history, then having the "main category" is not enough because the "main category" of Category:Spanish history does not lead to Category:Jewish Spanish history as it works the other way around. Thus, because Isabella of Castile was a key figure in the Spanish Inquisition with its vast impact on Spanish and world Jewry, she is thus unquestionably part of Category:Jewish Spanish history. However, there is no way to know this if all that is listed for her is Category:Spanish history. Please familiarize yourself a lot more with the methodology of "categorization" BEFORE you tamper with the system of categories on Wikipedia. Please read Help:Category, see Help:Category#Subcategories:
- Categories themselves can also be specified to belong to another category. When displaying the page of a category to which other categories belong, a separate automatically generated, alphabetical list of subcategories is also produced. For example you could edit Category:Football (soccer) and add the link Category:Sports. The Soccer category would then be a subcategory of the Sports category. [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Category#Subcategories) Thank you. IZAK 04:51, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I had already read that description some time ago when some subcategories I had added were deleted by another editor. This other editor seemed convinced that if a main category is present, then sub categories should be deleted. Since that editor was senior to me, I deferred to his/her judgment on this procedural matter, and since that time I have deleted a few sub categories when I happened to spot them, as a wikifying edit. The section of policy quoted above doesn't actually seem to say that using categories and their subs on the same page is OK, merely that sub categories are a part of, and linked to, major CATs. Also, I was not able to understand your reasoning when you said: "However, when an article is also specifically linked to a uniquely different subject such as Category:Jewish Spanish history, then having the "main category" is not enough because the "main category" of Category:Spanish history does not lead to Category:Jewish Spanish history as it works the other way around." As far as I can tell, the main Spanish History CAT does lead to the jewish Spanish History sub-cat. --AladdinSE 11:00, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
- Hi, ok: First of all from what you are saying it seeems you are still getting to know how the system of categorization works (maybe in your personal experience/s you were not going about adding the sub-categories correctly?) Second of all, you must appreciate that Jewish history is its own vast area of study with many articles of its own or related articles (like Isabella of Castile) connected to it, which then has its whole chain of Jewish-related categories, sub-categories, and sub-sub-categories etc. as part of it. Third, you must NOT confuse the Wikipedia pages of CATEGORIES with the article pages. Please look carefully at the category page for Category:Spanish history which is itself a "sub-category" of Category:Spain (by the way, we would not even dare slap Category:Spain onto an ARTICLE and "remove" Category:Spanish history because the ARTICLE is also a "sub-category" of Category:Spain). Now look carefully again at the CATEGORY page for Category:Spanish history and you will see that Category:Jewish Spanish history is listed on the top of the page, under "J", as a "sub-category" of Category:Spanish history and NOT the other way around. Fourth if you look at the page for Category:Jewish Spanish history you will see that it has its own four "sub-categories" NONE of which are Category:Spanish history (and they are in fact sub-sub-sub categories of Category:Spain, sub-sub categories ofCategory:Spanish history, and finaly sub-categories of Category:Jewish Spanish history.) You must note that on that Category:Jewish Spanish history category page you will see that at the BOTTOM of the page, meaning where you can "Edit" the page, it is listed as being a sub-category OF both Category:Jewish history AND Category:Spanish history. You are (mistakenly) assuming that because "Category:Jewish Spanish History" appears on the "Category:Spanish History" page then that means "all is well" and then there is "no need top place the ARTICLE Isabella of Castile in "Category:Jewish Spanish history". Now that is WRONG!!! Because if someone were to look ONLY into the Category:Jewish Spanish history section through another article then they would NEVER SEE Isabella of Castile in "Category:Jewish Spanish history" unless they went "searching for her" and they would never find her if she was "buried" some place with all the other articles that pertain to Category:Spanish history only. So for the benefit of those who are EITHER on a "SPANISH (history)" track only, OR on a "JEWISH (Spanish) history" track only, we must have Isabella of Castile put into both Category:Spanish history AND into Category:Jewish Spanish history because of her crucial significance to both subject-areas and hence also to their respective categories. Fifth, you must ALWAYS have in mind that categories are system of ASCENDING hierarchy -- meaning you start from the SMALLER units/categories and you go up to the bigger ones/categories as well as system over-lapping tapestries that SHARE/INTERSECT articles all the time from different perspectives/angles. Finally, I want to stress again, that it sometimes happens that an article (such as Isabella of Castile is directly connected to BOTH a sub-category of Category:Spain in this case Category:Spanish history and ALSO to the sub-sub category such as Category:Jewish Spanish history because in her case she was important to the general history of Spain, AND she was a CRUCIAL figure in the "History of the Jews of Spain" due to her key role in the Inquisition and as probably the main instigator of the "EXPULSION of the Jews from Spain in 1492", so she has to be included in BOTH the sub-category ("Category:Spanish history") and sub-sub category of "Category:Spain" ("Category:Jewish Spanish history"). (And evidently she is also important to three other intersecting categories themselves in turn, sub-categories etc. of other categries): Category:Castilian monarchs; Category:Queens regnant; and Category:History of Catholicism in Spain.) I hope you have followed my detailed explanation to help you better understand how the system of categories functions on Wikipedia. Thanks. IZAK 14:53, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I never thought Categories would be so complicated. My initial opinion was that important sub-cats should be listed, but their seems to be a divergence of opinion on this. See what you can make out of the recent deletion [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel&diff=11991653&oldid=11923376) of sub-cats in the Israel article. At the time of my writing this, the current version had only the one Category:Israel and the four other subs were deleted. Is it unjustified? Is it a similar situation to the Isabela of Castile article? What is the proper action? --AladdinSE 04:04, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
- Ok, will do, I have not been looking at the Israel article, but will take a look now. Thanks. IZAK 06:08, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- some additional names and info to verify
Isabella I of Castile and Aragon (1451-1504): also known as Isabella of Castile, Isabella of Spain, Isabella the Catholic, Isabel la Catolica: ruled with her husband Ferdinand, drove the Moors from Granada, expelled unconverted Jews from Spain, established the Inquisition --Iggynelix 21:01, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
