Talk:Juliana of the Netherlands
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Why were apostrophes changed into question marks ?
- looks like a typical MS Word --> text thing. Did you have SmartQuotes on? -- Viajero 11:58 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Is the article title appropriate? Has a legendesque feel to it, like Joan of Arc. If it's a common popular nominative, I apologize. -- Gyan 23:58, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)-
- You're right about the archaic flavour of the title, but it's the result of the Wikipedia naming convention that monarch get named as "Forename" "Ordinal number if any" "of" "country". The idea is to avoid duplicate articles. Redirects can be made for other article that will point to this one (e.g. Queen Juliana of the Netherlands or Juliana, Queen of the Netherlands or Princess Juliana of the Netherlands. -- Nunh-huh 00:02, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
She did not belong to the house of Orange-Nassau. She belonged to the ducal house of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. "Queen of the Netherlands" was a position she inherited from her mother, but she still belonged to the Mecklenburg-Schwerin family. In continental Europe, nobility and family membership is based on the Salian Law and only inherited on the agnatic side. Ertz 00:42, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Even their own official website says that they are the House of Orange-Nassau [1] (http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/UK/monarchy/monarchy.html). Are you telling me they're wrong? Anyway: "The Dutch constitution refers to the head of state as 'the King', even when the monarch is a woman, like the present Queen Beatrix." So, Queen Beatrix is constitutionally the King, which bypasses Salic law, even if it was (ever?) applicable, which I doubt, because (among many reasons):
- Salic law forbade female succession to property but were not concerned with titles or offices.
- Some people wrongly think that Salic Law forbids females and those descended in the female line to succeed to the titles or offices in the family. Even if this was true, applying it to the Netherlands (and most if not all of the European constituational monarchies) these days is erroneous, because the females patently DO inherit the titles and offices.
- The Dutch monarchy is now a constitutional monarchy based on the Dutch constitution and acts of parliament, which supersedes any previous laws/customs that the succession was based on, be they Salic or not.
Elf-friend 01:27, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
>"Even their own official website says that they are the House of Orange-Nassau"
And I may tell you on my home page that I belong to the house of Orange-Nassau as well. Why shouldn't I? The thing is, that nobility, the basis of the position of this woman, is based solely on salic family succession. She may succeed to the "King" position, she may inherit property and so forth from her mother, but she still technically belongs to her own (agnatic) family, of course. You should also take into account the family laws of the house of Mecklenburg-Schwerin and German Adelsrecht. Just because she inherited a Dutch position, this of course did not mean that she lost her own noble status. Ertz 18:42, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Well, I think I'd still believe their claim to be of the House of Orange-Nassau before I'll believe your claim, for a start. :-)
Seriously, though, if taken to their logical conclusion, your arguments would imply that if a queen (of any given royal house) ever marries a commoner she (or at least her children) would lose their noble status, which certainly cannot be the case.
- The children of that queen will certainly not lose anything, because the status of their maternal family have never been a possession of their own family. However, their own agnatic family will became royal itself, when the throne becomes a possession of that family. Ertz 23:50, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Also, Dutch law takes precedence over so-called "family laws" or the laws of other countries in this case, as it concerns the Dutch sovereign.
Elf-friend 20:04, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- The article is dealing with the person, which is also Duchess of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Ertz 23:50, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Lead section
The lead section needs to be expanded to fit the article length. Please mention what she did that was notable, that set herself from others. --Jiang 09:23, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Inauguration in which church?
At the end of "Return to Netherlands" it says she was inaugurated "in the New Church in Amsterdam". New Church is one of several designations for a number of international Swedenborgian organizations. Is this reference meant to be to a Swedenborgian church in Amsterdam? If not, New Church may need disambiguation.