Talk:Karate
From Academic Kids
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Several comments
This page needs work. It looks like a compliation from many maybe not-so-trustworthy sources. I would like to take quite a few of questionable things out:
- Pretty much any Chinese art - well not really, but so many Chinese arts are referred to by Shaolin. I very much doubt that the Chinese arts brought to Okinawa can be said to be "Shaolin" by any useful definition.
- The zen influence on budo in general is according to some writers clearly overestimated. It should be expressed with less emphasis, I think.
- How can karate be without any kind of weapons, if weapons kata is one of the competition types... Although I do not belive in the first statement I have a clue that most "weapons kata" might not be very authentic.
- Matsumura Motobu yields some hits in Google, but it does not at all unlikely that it all comes from one source. It certainly sounds more like a person's name to me. Unless some good support for it is found, I would like this one out.
- The translation of the style names are not necessary. (In karate it is almost always called styles, so Dan Inosantos definitions will be a tad bit difficult to use here.) Kobayashi-ryu, for instance - I guess Kobayashi is a teacher's name.
- Some facts can bo moved to Shotokan, Wado Ryu etc. Habj 17:29, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Addressing comments by habj: Karate itself is without weapons, there are associated arts, known as kobudo, that have the weapons and weapons kata. The rest of the comments look very good and should be acted on.
Adressing the second set of comments the first is right on. The second concerning Jiyu kumite, not so much. What really should happen is the wording should be toned down a bit. Yes some styles go all out and it looks like a real fight but more generally it is a continous flow >controled< flow of sparing to give a better sense of true combat.
Specific comments about belt colors should be left out. There are so many variations that about all that can be said with certainty is that there are >usually< white belts and black belts. Other than that it is anyones guess.
- Actually, karate on Okinawa was probably well intertwined with weapons training. Why should it have been two different systems? The Okinawan styles often incorporate weapons in their training. I suppose the weapons part fitted worse in the role that karate got to play in Japan. Many people say as you do, but this is a misconception. Habj 09:35, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- The problem with this statement is that what we know as 'karate' is a product of the 20th century. Prior to that, on Okinawa, there were a number of fighting arts know primarily by the names of the towns which practiced them. As far as the histories I have read go, the concept of a unified item that could be equated to Karate did not exist. Possibly the resolution is break the article into two sections. Pre 20th century martial arts on Okinawa, and the arts we now know as Karate.
Removed paragraphs
I removed these paragraphs:
Yakusoku Kumite starts at Green Belt (Yon-Kyu). Two opponents usually square off and fight until a clean point is scored, as indicated by one of two seated judges by coloured flags or seen by the standing referee. At this point sparring is stopped and the point is awarded. Points systems vary but in general a half-point (wazari) is awarded for a single punch or for a kick to the body. A full point (ippon) is given for an attack such as a head kick, any attack following the opponent being taken to the ground or a combination technique (renrakuwaza).
Jiyu Kumite can look more like a brawl or street fight. It is the more serious side of the martial arts, being done more for defense or close-combat "Real Time" training than for sport. Although every technique should be controlled, the fighters do push themselves to be their best. No points are awarded.
because they probably describe kumite in some specific style or organisation of karate. Most certainly, yokosuku kumite från green belt is something style-specific and as we don't know where it belongs it is better to remove it. 193.10.63.101 12:41, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Randori?
Is randori a common name for sparring in karate? I never heard it. It could be used in some styles, maybe? Habj 09:37, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I asked around, and found no support for free sparring in karate being called randori. Maybe it is in one or a couple of styles, but hardly more than that. I removed it. Habj 15:18, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I clarified some of the definitions for kata and removed some of the random sentences. I also added some information on other Okinawans who were teaching in Japan around Funakoshi's time. Randori is a judo term, for free type application of kuzushi.
RSimpson
