Talk:Leo Frank
From Academic Kids
An interesting to point out in the article is that the case, aparting from leading to the founding of the ADL, also sparked the revival of the Klan, now with a pronounced anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic, and anti-immigrant stance. I would do it but I'm just too tired. Danny 02:57, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- Done. -- Viajero 12:12, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
"ashes of populism"? Populism says it's alive and well. (The verb I'd prefer is admits; that article tastes of an anti POV.) Kwantus 21:34, 2005 Jan 28 (UTC)
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Mary Phagan's family
Perhaps someone could add a paragraph regarding Mary Phagan's family's take on the situation. As I've read elsewhere, while they were convinced of Leo Frank's guilt, they stated on several occasions they had no connection to the Knights of Mary Phagan nor did they support/agree with the revitalized KKK.
Mary's great-grandneice, Mary Phagan Kean, has written a book, The Murder of Little Mary Phagan, where she details her research into the case. It's pretty incredible that someone can compile that much information and still think Frank is guilty. She also discredits Alonzo Mann's deathbed confession from 1982 with little more evidence than "because I said so," so I guess her insistence of Frank's guilt shouldn't come as any real surprise. However, this book might be worth mentioning in a paragraph about the Phagan family's view. --Birdhombre 18:06, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the very useful suggestions. I added some text. -- Viajero 19:43, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Impartial Additions / Comments
I recently attempted to provide some facts and/or comments about this case because I find that most of the reporting on this case has been somewhat selective. It really is not as clear cut a case as most writers seem to think. Viajero has written me a message suggesting that I may have used some editiorial comments. I revised my additions several times to avoid this; but I suppose I might have done a better job. At any rate, the quote from Mr. Busch which uses the phrase "the most one can say is" happens to be a direct quote from his book "Guilty or Not Guilty." This is not an editorial comment. Robbchadwick 11:53, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
comments to Robbchadwick
Robbchadwick, as I mentioned on your talk page, I have tweaked your recent additions a bit. I removed these lines:
- Unfortunately, Alonzo Mann's assertion that he saw Jim Conley carrying the body of Mary Phagan may not shed much new light on this case. Jim Conley was prosecuted for being an accessory after fact at the time of the murder and served prison time for that offense.
First, presumably Conley was convicted for being a "watchout", not for moving the body around. Second, this statement has an editorial POV and needs to be attributed to someone. Do you have a source for it?
- Most of the literature written since the middle of the twentieth century has focused on the religious prejudice surrounding the case, without presenting the considerable evidence that really did implicate Leo Frank.
Likewise, it would be better to attribute this to someone. Do you have a source for it?
- It is indeed a tragedy that Leo Frank was the victim of religious prejudice, but that fact alone cannot determine his innocence.
This, as you perhaps can see by now, is clearly an editorial standpoint that likewise needs to be attributed or left out.
Thanks, -- Viajero 12:17, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Comments regarding Jim Conley's conviction, etc.
Actually, Jim Conley was convicted for being an accessory AFTER the fact. He claimed to have acted as a lookout while Leo Frank entertained young ladies on a number of occassions; but he admitted helping Leo Frank move the body and write the notes after the murder; and this is why he was convicted as an accessory and served about a year, I believe, on the chain gang.
By the way, not that it makes any difference since I am not a member of the newsroom, but I work for The Tennessean in Nashville which actually broke the story of Alonzo Mann's "confession" back in the 1980's. About the only thing Alonzo Mann contributed to what was already known is that (if his statement is totally accurate) Jim Conley was alone with the body, while Conley had stated that he helped Leo Frank move the body in the elevator. (Frankly, I am just not so sure we can put a lot of faith in the memory of a 13 year old boy 6o+ years later. Is it possible that as a young white boy, Mann saw a large black man, whom he had been taught to fear, carrying a dead body and failed to notice there was a skinny white man there as well?) At any rate, Alonzo Mann's testimony was not that revealing. Mary Phagan was already dead when Alonzo Mann saw Jim Conley with the body. It really didn't change things all that much whether Jim Conley helped move the body alone or was accompanied by Leo Frank. Leo Frank was his boss; and according to him, he helped move the body and write the notes under orders from his boss. It seems that the State of Georgia saw it that way when they considered Alonzo Mann's statement.
Let me state for the record that I am a white male without any religious affiliation. However, I absolutely abhor any discrimination based on race or religion. It is wrong for a person's race or religious beliefs to have any effect whatsoever on the outcome of a legal proceeding. My statement that most of the written material on this case within the last fifty years has totally focused on anti-semitism instead of the murder and the evidence itself is simply an observation gathered by having read what was written early in the 20th century compared to what was written in the last half of the century. The facts of the case, especially the ones that are negative to Leo Frank, seem to have been lost. Anti-semitism certainly did rear it's ugly head in this case; but prejudice toward Jewish people was not generally that great in Atlanta at the time of this crime. Perhaps during the trial, anti-semitism did increase; but it is an absolute fact that prejudice and distrust toward African Americans was much more prevalent. I can't help believing that a white prosecutor and twelve white male jurors in 1913 Atlanta must have felt the evidence quite compelling to accept the word of an African American semi-literate man over that of a well educated, successful white businessman, Jewish or not.
Thanks. Robbchadwick 14:13, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Right aligned lead image
The right-aligned image makes it easier to read the page, with the TOC on the left below, and the next image alternating to the left. Does anyone have any problems with this design? --Viriditas | Talk 08:49, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
