Talk:Liberal movements within Islam

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Contents

1 There is no Liberal Islam. Some say there isn't, some say there is 2 الإسلام الإجتهادية 3 Should remain separate article. 4 Islam and Anarchism

There is no Liberal Islam. Some say there isn't, some say there is

Why do you come up with a new term as if it is a new religion? Why don't you say "I am a Muslim but this is the way I want to live my life?" What's wrong with this?

There is one religion and you are trying to fit it into your lives. It is the other way around, guys!! We change ourselves to be a better Muslim.

Whether s/he interprets the religion this or that, a true Muslim would easily see this as a fitnah! You are responsible to use your God-given mind and intelligence responsibly.

The above written by 156.56.101.139. (DJ Clayworth 18:18, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC))

Editing to try to fix this wrong impression: this article should probably be merged with Modern Islamic philosophy. Also linked fitnah in the comment above. -- Karada 18:47, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

'Liberal movements within Islam may disagree'! =) Please see my comment below. --Zeeshanhasan 20:56, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I did not come up with a new term as if it is a new religion. It ISN'T a new religion. I just use it to differentiate it from the mainstream Islam (which I would assume you're a follower of). Did you know that people are supposed to think, the majority of Muslims are prevented from that, because they did not study the religion or the Arabic language. In a sense, they are trying to organize a religion that has inorganization in its source. Abraham left Mesoptamia because he wanted to get away from organized religion. And here we are, trying to organize it into something that is defined by certain and definite boundaries. My notes to you are: A biased muslim would see as a fitnah, but a thinking muslim would find this to be possibly right and a possible way of interpreting Islam. A fundamental verse in the Qur'an itself describes the religion as "simple for the people and not a complication." (Personal interpretation) And here you are trying to complicate it! And yes, I am responsible to use my God-given mind and intelligence responsibly: I am using it to make muslims think for themselves and not go to Mullahs or Imams or Fuqaha's or Ulemas. Yes, I am a strict believer in ijtihad and not taqlid (which is imitation or tradition). Did you know, when one of the prophecies of the day of Judgement, is when you approach old men they say "We say "La Ilaha ila Allah" (There is no deity but God), because we used to hear our fathers say them, but we don't understand what they mean." That's because people imitate blindly, without thinking. Well, here it is, the future is on your hands now. If you want your children to say that statement, then it is you to blame. I have done my work by trying to make people think for themselves. I bid you a happy and potentially intellectual and interesting life. Oh, and Liberal Islam does exist. It's the Islam that doesn't enforce itself on people and tolerates differences and doesn't prevent people from enjoying themselves just because what they are doing is untraditional. You can find it in many places around the world. Although, we, as liberal Muslims or Ijtihadists are a minority. We still exist, and there's no denying that! I don't think it would be a good idea to merge it into Modern Islamic Philosophy, no matter how much this may cause criticism among people. PS I do hope you keep your mind open to people who are different, there is nothing wrong with difference. --Agari 07:48, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)

Is there really a liberal islam? maybe there are liberal muslims but there isn't liberal islam as it said to be in the article ... i can consider Abo Hanifa, Malik and Shaf'i to be liberals cause they interpret the qur'an and that what is called ijtehad ... but you cannot come with a fatwa not based on qur'an nor hadeeth and call it ijthad ... even secular muslims would not consider the idea of separating the church of the state to be islamic based ijtihad .... and so consedering tolerating homosexuality .... you can't say that god punished lot's people for being homosexuals and then letting muslims get away with it! it conflicts with the text even if you interpret it ... and if you dropped any verse of the qur'an you'll be as god said: "Do you people credit part of the Book upon the ground of Allah’s Authority and discredit part upon the ground of your authority? Indeed, he who adopts this line of conduct shall suffer for his offence".

Conclusion: There is no such thing called LIBERAL ISLAM, maybe LIBERAL MUSLIMS but not ISLAM! Turky

I disagree. There is a liberal version of Islam out there, as proven by Amina Wadud and plenty of other people. — Rickyrab | Talk 01:44, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe fundamentalist Christianity is real christianity but many other people think it is and they helped elect Bush president so in the sense that someone out there believes fundamentalist Christianity is real we have to mention it. In the same way Liberal Islam exists because there are a number of people out there who believe it exists even if others do not believe it is real Islam. --Gbleem 13:51, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

الإسلام الإجتهادية

Can anyone provide a transliteration and translation of الإسلام الإجتهادية, please? -- Karada 16:30, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I just translated this as 'interpretation-based Islam' which conveniently agrees with the ijtihad entry. --Zeeshanhasan 11:12, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Should remain separate article.

Modern Islamic Philosophy contains both conservative and liberal POV. However, Muslim liberalism does exist as a fairly coherent set of ideas, just as 'Muslim fundamentalism' etc.; and all such coherent bodies of thought with distinct POVs should have their own articles. Keeping this a separate article also cleans up other articles, including messy ones like Islamism and many others which are written from a particular POV; the easiest way to maintain NPOV is to simply insert a line qualifying each of those articles by saying 'liberal movements within Islam may disagree'. --Zeeshanhasan 11:12, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"Feminism is likewise a major issue. For this reason, non-liberal Muslims are often critical of polygamy." Do liberal Muslims support polygamy or is this an error? I would think very liberal muslims would support polygamy but only if polygyny was also allowed.

You're right, of course, whomever you are. =) Thanks, I've corrected the error. --Zeeshanhasan 06:43, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Islam and Anarchism

I read this section (could have better citations)... and, well, this comment isn't so much about this section. However, if we are going to continue to add sections of the innumerable "liberal" strains of Islam then we are going to have to find better pay layout... meaning. A lot of liberal ideas are just thrown around... there isn't a set school for them so much, so organization is hard, but if we are going to continue to expand this page we must talk about it. gren 19:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It does seem to me that this page is becoming very badly organized. The original structure focused on issues, not people, and so was useful in talking about a very broad spectrum of liberal views such as is found in Kurzman's books. However, the newest sections on North America and Anarchism don't fit that structure at all, mainly because they focus exclusively on particular individuals. The easiest way to take care of this would be to move the new material to separate articles on the Progressive Muslim Union of North America and Islamic Anarchism. What do people think of that? --Zeeshanhasan 16:34, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)