Talk:List of extinct states

Africa

Someone who knows the history of Africa could add many ancient and colonial countries.

"State"

If you can think of a better description, have at it. "Political entity" is too broad. "State" isn't quite right, it seems (some empires weren't what we ordinarily think of as "states," though strictly I suppose they were). "Realm" might be used tongue-in-cheek...

Explain/link what happened after

When possible, we should link to and explain what a particular country/territory became/merged into.

This allow readers to see the formation of modern day countries.

Ancient civilizations

LA2 says: This page refers to states of some form, and so leaves no room for ancient civilizations that were more loosely held together. I'm not sure of the terms here. For example, what was the "Athenian empire"?

Republics of San Marino and Venice

wait a minute - the Republic of San Marino is one thing (and still exists, see countries of the world and Venice is another. The Venetian Republic is gone.

British Empire

Does the British Empire belong on this page? --Robert Merkel

It's speciated into the Commonwealth, guv. :-)

Name changes

Do name changes, like Zaire (back) to Congo, count?

Tuvalu

I'm skeptical of including Tuvalu. Any Tuvaluans want to comment?

I'm not Tuvaluan, but I suspect Tuvalu may outlast a number of nations not on that list. Vicki Rosenzweig

Actually, I think it is Nauru, not Tuvalu, that is considering moving the country because they are running out of phosphates and the island is an ecological disaster

Tuvalu is considering emigrating--at something like 50 people a year, whom New Zealand is welcoming--because rising sea levels may drown the country. Vicki Rosenzweig

Re-categorization

I've re-organised this page, creating a number of categories, in stead of historical groups based on the period, because I found the list mostly uninformative. Maybe there should be an alphabetic list as well, since this is mostly a reference table. As with most categorisations, some items will fit into more than one box (maybe we should also put them in both boxes) and it could be debated which boxes to create. Please do!

I've also included some short comments on each name, making the list useful, also for not (yet) existing articles.

I have not yet included all countries, and I have put the remaining countries at the bottom. The really ancient countries will be difficult to classify, and I'm not really sure about its usefulness either, since this list is far from exhaustive, and it tends to only list some of the well-known empires from times where there wasn't even a notion of nations - One could easily make big lists of small semi-independent or autonomous counties, duchies, principalities, and other territories for most of the European countries in the period between the end of the Roman Empire and the end of, say, the Renaissance.

Finally, I think the title of this page really stinks. An article with "etc." in the title... Any good suggestions? jheijmans

Weimar Republic

Was "Weimar Republic" really the name of the country, or just a description? How does that differ from "Vichy France"? -- Zoe

Weimar Republic was the name of an era, not of a country. Nor was East Germany or West Germany the official name. The two did not merge to Germany. The German Democratic Republic joined the Federal Republic of Germany. The later kept its name. -- JeLuF

Former parts of Canada

If we're going to include all of the former components of Canada in this list, shouldn't we include the Thirteen Colonies? -- Zoe

and another thing to do with Canada, the Iroquois confederacy is not extinct, it is alive and well and is thriving in Southwestern Ontario, that is why it should be removed. It goes by teh name of the Six nations now, as they have accepted another tribe into their confederation.

Alexander the Great's Empire

Empire of Alexander the Great (what is it called?)

Wasn't it called the Macedonian Empire? Tokerboy 16:49 Oct 8, 2002 (UTC)

Premise

I strongly question the premise of this list. All the various shades of "conquered", "experienced revolution", "changed governments", "split", "merged", etc, etc, etc, etc make this list basically meaningless. Let's rethink this.

I find it interesting, and am moved to work on it; I think it's worthwhile User:Fredbauder

But: What goes here and what doesn't???

I also think this article needs a name change and a clearer purpose. I would say delete, but something along these lines would be useful. Unfortunately, the idea of a state is a relatively modern. Were there any "states" north of Mexico before Columbus? Kinda, but not really in the same sense that Canada or Belgium are modern states. Tokerboy 04:10 Dec 7, 2002 (UTC)

I wonder why "Tang China" is included in the list. Tang is just a dynasty (or period) in Chinese history, and should not be regarded as an "extinct" country. --Lorenzarius

TRNC

Shouldn't the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (the state that was formed by Turkish citizens in Northern Cyprus in 1983) be listed under the Secessionist states heading? -hoshie

Taiwan

Why Taiwan? Is the Republic of Taiwan worth mentioning? --Jiang 13:00 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)

errr... Why Hong Kong? Hong Kong never ever was an independent country. And I don't think anyone would refer to the colonial government of Hong Kong before 1997 as an extinct country.

Republic of Taiwan (May 25, 1895 - October 21, 1895) looks sensible to me though. --Lorenzarius 09:56 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Poland

I thought Poland was part of the Russian Empire, not Austria-Hungary - Lee M 12:43, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

It was spilitted between them. For example Krakow was part of Austria. Bogdan 13:00, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Various

In response to a number of points:

Poland before 1918 was divided between Prussia/Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia
Germany was called Deutsches Reich from 1871 to 1945. There was never a country called the Weimar Republic.
On the Burma/Myanmar question, see my History of Burma page. IMHO the country is and should be still called Burma.

Adam 14:29, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Also, re States in Medieval Britain - the English counties were never countries or states, and don't belong in this article. Adam 15:17, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Placement of medieval city states

The medieval city states along the Adriatic, notably Venice and Dubrovnik, seem to belong both in the sections on medieval civilizations and in "countries now part of other countries". I'm ambivalent about which to pick. The latter section is perhaps too generic. --Shallot 15:52, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I've moved most of the stuff that was extinct by the 19th/20th century into the section that starts in the middle ages. The sections after colonies mostly talk about the more recent periods, perhaps they should be grouped somehow? Post-industrial-revolutions era? Post-colonial period? Modern ages? I'm worried that my terminology is Euro-centric and may not be universally applicable/acceptable. --Shallot 17:05, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Redirects from old to new

Would it be a good idea to add in REDIRECT articles for those names which map directly to the succeeding name? Picking an example out of the ether gives me "Spanish Guinea - became Equatorial Guinea": should someone make Spanish Guinea into a REDIRECT to Equatorial Guinea? Phil 16:24, Dec 9, 2003 (UTC)

Yes. --Jiang | Talk

Poll on move

I propose to move it to List of extinct states. Optim 09:16, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree

Optim
your name here

I disagree

your name here

I don't care

Halibutt
Space Cadet
jengod
your name here

Discussion

your comments here

Move

I moved the page to List of extinct states. You may continue voting above, of there is opposition we can move it back to were it was. O p t i m^·.· 18:22, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Merge from List of past countries in Europe

INFORMATION TO BE MERGED FROM List of past countries in Europe which now redirects here

Below is a list of countries in Europe that no longer exist:

Sparta (now part of Greece)
Gaul (now France and Belgium)
Holy Roman Empire
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Normandy (now part of France)
Kingdom of Prussia
Yugoslavia
Czechoslovakia
East Germany
Austria-Hungary
Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (1581-1795) (now Belgium and the Netherlands)
Roman Empire
Soviet Union
Pomerania (1121-1637, now part of Poland and Germany)

Tannin 09:00, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Duplication

Err. Is it just me or did several parts of the article get repeated without anyone noticing? --Shallot 15:01, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

History of Netherlands/Belgium

Something to add:

Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (1581 - 1795) (Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden/Provinciën) Independence from Spain after Eighty Years' War in 1581, conquered by Napoleon 1795.
Batavian Republic (1795 - 1806) (Bataafse Republiek) France's vassal state.
Kingdom of Holland (1806 - 1810) (Koninkrijk Holland/Royaume d'Hollande) Ruled by Louis Bonaparte, annexed by France 1810.
United Kingdom of the Netherlands (1815 - 1830) (Verenigd Koninkrijk der Nederlanden/Royaume-Uni des Pays-Bas) created during the Congress of Vienna in 1815, dissolved to Belgium (revolted 1830), Luxembourg (left 1835) and Netherlands.

Mikko Paananen 19:14, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

medieval and modern

perhaps we could be more specific and list the states from the medieval and modern ages instead of having them in one supercategory

Michael Hardy wrote: Medieval Ages - Minor edit. But I wonder why the Papal States are in this section, since they did not become fully extinct until 1870.

I think it's wrong to fairly wrong to separate the Middle Ages from the modern ages like this because most of the states listed didn't cease to exist between the two periods, or in the early modern period. I had intentionally named the original section "Middle ages to modern times", but someone undid that. --Joy [shallot] 18:14, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Republic of Texas

I was looking at this list and noticed that the Republic of Texas is under Secessionist States. I don't believe this is correct - it should be under Annexed Countries. While the Mexican government never recognized the Republic of Texas, it was recognized as a soverign nation by France, England, and the United States.

Does anybody else have an opinion on this? I was thinking we could either a) move Republic of Texas to Annexed Countries or b) In addition to listing it under secessionist states, list it under annexed countries.

--Mr. Brown 08:12, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)

I'm new in the page, but I will try to make a good point of view. :D

I Think that The Republic of Texas was considerate by the Mexican Government (and several of the independent countries in Latin America) as a seccesionist stated (it was part of the State of Coahuila-Texas under the federal Mexican System). I believe that becouse of his short-lived existence and the fact that it was not fully recognise as an independent state, It is Ok to leave it in the current status. Messhermit 05:24, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Some Facts

I just realice that this article is missing another country: the Peru-Bolivian Confederacy, in the part of America. An Article about this exist, but you are missing the link.

Also, Tacna and Arica where integral part of Peru until the War of the Pacific. After the war, they were transfered to chilean jurisdiction, wich was not completely sovereign (only the peruvian province of Tarapaca was annexed inmediatly). A plesbicite was due to decide the fate of the territory, but was never enforced by chilean authorities. Arica was still considerated part of Peru until the final and definitive division of the territory. Messhermit 05:24, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup

This article needs to be cleaned up to conform to a higher standard of quality.
See How to Edit and Style and How-to for help, or this article's talk page.

This list has begun to get disorganized. Would it be possible to sort by overarching period or geographic region, and then group related items together (like European colonies, kingdoms of China, etc.?) Currently the various subcategories seem to overlap in an untidy fashion. -- Beland 01:31, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I believe that it should be divided on different topics, like "Africa Region" or "European Region" and state each one of those in different periods of time, something like this:

List of Extinct states: (main article)

European Region (another Aricle)

Former Empires (subdivission)

Austro-Hungary Empire: Disolved on 1918

Messhermit 05:19, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

pre- unification of italy

would it be better to move such entities as the papal states to "annexed countries"?

also while were talking about the papal states, can we include the list of states that were the papal states?

look here for more countries

Category:Historical Indian empires

Category:Former countries in Chinese history

Why show Iraq?

Why do the Kingdom of Iraq and the Republic of Iraq show up on the list? They all occupy the same land and are all identified as "Iraq" in common usage. The links to the older country names don't even point to their own articles because the history is all covered under the name of "Iraq". Knowing that a country changed its government is not very interesting in an article called "List of extinct states" --Beirne 11:54, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

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