Talk:Mind

From Academic Kids

Relationship between "mind" and "soul"

The mind article starts out with this statement about the mind: "it is often considered alongside such related notions as soul and spirit" which seems to put some distance between mind and soul.

That is soon followed by: "the mind, or soul (if you will)" which seems to remove any distinction between mind and soul.

The soul article says, "the boundaries between "soul" and "mind" can vary in different interpretations."

Is there a key distinction to be made between mind and soul or is it acceptable for the mind page to blur the boundary between mind and soul? Maybe there is a distinction to be made between the material and the immaterial. We now have philosophers like Churchland and neuroscientists like Crick who propose to use the methods of science to define the material basis of mind. As the mind article says about "mind", "Some people think it is synomous {<- spelling} with the brain," which I think is close to the truth. People like Crick would say that mind is produced by the activity of a brain (music is produced by a speaker system, music is not a speaker system). The key point is, there is the chance that we can rationally explain mind in terms of the workings of the material brain.

How do we rationally explain the idea of a "soul"? The soul is a memetic construct produced by human brains. Most conceptualizations of soul include the idea of the soul existing beyond anything material. Maybe we can best distinguish "soul" from "mind" by emphasizing the fact that it is natural for humans to imagine that an immaterial soul accompanies the material body, thus the "soul concept" is one of the universal human cultural elements. JWSchmidt 14:17, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

In intro I clarified the statement about mind as a program. Some, notatbly, John Searle, argue that the mind is not a program....and not "best thought of" as such. icut4u 17:51, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Substantial and functional views

I'm thinking of doing an edit of this page and have a question about the "substantial" view and the "functional" view. I've never heard of the former. Regarding the latter, there is a position in the philosophy of mind called functionalism, but it doesn't seem to correspond with the "functional" view. I'm not saying these terms don't exist, just that I've never heard them before. Does anyone have a reference or know which field these terms come from? Many thanks, Slim 05:12, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)

Psychology is not my field but the previous article was such rubbish I felt impelled to write a new one. It is based mainly on Collier's Encyclopedia plus my general knowledge. It may be a bit out of date so feel free to improve it. But please don't drag it back into the metaphysical tosh that was here before. Adam 08:15, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi Adam, yes I saw the previous version and was glad to see you'd rewritten it. I was thinking of adding some material from philosophy of mind. I won't do anything too complex or weird, but I thought I might lay out a couple of the approaches, which can generally be split into two main categories: those who believe mind/consciousness exists (however so described) i.e. that there is something over and above brain and body; and those who think there is no such thing as mind/consciousness e.g. Daniel Dennett in Consciousness Explained, who argues that there are simply neurological events and that we are our brains, which are nothing more than complex computers i.e. consciousness is a myth. I may not put it up straightaway though; it'll depend on available time. Best, Slim 08:44, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)

My understanding is that those are the two views which I have described as "substantial" and "functional" views respectively. One described the mind as having a "substance" of its own while the other describes it purely in terms of its functions. Those terms come from Colliers. If you know of better ones then by all means use them. Adam 08:53, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

An earlier version of the mind article linked to substance theory . "Substance Theory of Mind: The conception of the individual mind as a permanent, self-identical substance" [1] (http://www.ditext.com/runes/s.html). I have also seen people like Georges Rey talk about substance dualism and "property dualism" as is done at the Objectivist philosophy page. JWSchmidt 23:27, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hi JW, thank you for that. I'm not sure what might be meant by a "permanent, self-identical substance." Self-identity is a Hegelian term meaning, roughly, pure, containing nothing that is not itself i.e. containing no contradictions. So I suppose a permanent, self-identical mind would be a soul? I'm going to try to steer clear of anything confusing like this, or anything spiritual, and stick to the very basic philosophy of mind concepts. I'll do my editing on a subpage then bring it here for discussion. I'll also have a look at George Rey. Thanks for the information. Slim 23:49, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)

Directing mind's job

It's will that controlls us. Everything you do (think, eat, move) you want it. Humans have ability to direct all one's mind's job (thoughts, feelings, wills) to another one. That means you can make another soul to do(think) what you want (to want what you want). Than means you can controll another human body(brain, his muscles will do what you want). You must want it. We do what we want (we want what we do actually). You can think to another one, who will feel his own and the sender's thoughts at same time (those words of thinking). You can make it to another soul when he sleeps - you can guess what that means :). That's life, soul. Joakim 21:25, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)