Talk:Moors
From Academic Kids
The following text was moved from the article. olivier 12:22 Nov 7, 2002 (UTC)
Although this sort of maniqueism seems to be recurrent in Anglo Saxon historiography of that period, the Inquisition was invented by the French in the 13th century during the crussade against the Albigesian heresy in the Languedoc. It is true that it was Ferdinand of Aragon, the model of prince used by Machiavelo(Macchiavelli?), who scaled it as the general repressive instrument to control the state dissidents of any kind, and it was perfected by Philip II in the repression of the protestants in the Spanish Netherlands.
Source for my details on the expulsion of the Moriscos: Fernand Braudel, The Mediterranean and the Mediterranean World in the Age of Philip II, trans. Sian Reynolds (Harper Colophon, 1976), pp. 780 - 797. -- llywrch 18:44, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Moors&oldid=4329182 this article was never correctly.Aziri 11:38, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
if here is anyone who speak arabic (such mustapha) should see this link in ar. :http://www.libsc.org/st/p0003.htm#50 (when were the Moors black ? or nomadic ?Aziri 11:43, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- The article doesn't claim they were black; it says they were darker-skinned than Europeans, which is true. In Roman times, they certainly were (famously) nomadic. This article looks fine to me. - Mustafaa 17:52, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Did you even read the page? It doesn't say they were nomadic anyway. - Mustafaa 18:15, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
please tell me what is this ? The Moors is the ancient name for the indigenous nomadic Berber people in North Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Moors&oldid=4329182)Aziri 14:33, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- OK, so you corrected it. So why are you complaining about it if it's fixed? - Mustafaa 19:20, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You know, I figured out what the issue is - you think "Moors" means the same thing as "Mauri". It doesn't, not in English. - Mustafaa 04:15, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Moor is just mauri, but Mauri is latijn. you can see this : Zie het artikel “Moriscos”, van G.A.Wiegers, in de EoI, vol. VII, fasc. 117-118 (1991), pp. 241-244; maar vooral L.P.Harvey, The political, social and cultural history of the Moriscos, in: Jayyusi, I (1994), pp. 201-234 (pp. 201-203 over de dubbelzinnigheid van de benaming: “morisco” betekent op zich weinig meer dan “moors”; Janssen Perio,o.c., p. 471 n. 19, geeft als letterlijke vertaling van Moriscos: "Moortjes"). Zoals bekend, komt de benaming “Moor” van de naam “Mauri”, d.w.z. de Berberbewoners van de Romeinse provincie Mauretanië. Het gebruik ervan heeft niet enkel raciale connotaties, nl. van zwarte huidskleur (in werkelijkheid zijn vele Berbers blond en blauwogig), maar beklemtoont ook de Berberse component in de Andaluscultuur. Zie Glick (1979), pp
or :
Article sees "Moriscos", of G.A.Wiegers, in the EoI, full. VII, fasc. 117-118 (1991), pp. 241-244; but especially L.P.Harvey, The political, social and cultural history or the Moriscos, in: Jayyusi, I (1994), pp. 201-234 (pp. 201-203 concerning the dubbelzinnigheid of the denomination: "morisco" mean in itself a little more than "Moor"; Janssen Perio, o.c., give n. 19 to p. 471 as litteral translation of Moriscos: "Moortjes"). Confessed as, the denomination "moor" comes of the name "Mauri", i.e. the Berberbewoners of the Roman province Mauritania. The use of it does not have only racial connotations, viz. of black skin colour (in reality its vele berbers fair and blue-eyed), but emphasises also the berberse component in the Andaluscultuur. See Glick (1979), pp
source :http://www.flwi.ugent.be/cie/RUG/deley21_3.htm
"...The word Moors derives from the Latin mauri..." source : http://www.spanish-fiestas.com/andalucia/history-moorish-spain.htm you know that there a one word for Moor or Mauri in arabic. Aziri 14:11, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The word "Moor" derives from the word Mauri (as the article already notes) just as the word Berber derives from the word Barbarian. Does that imply that "Berber" and "barbarian" mean the same thing? - Mustafaa 20:47, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Yes , it mean the same , if you call me berber. and that is the reason why we don't use berber ,well amazigh. the difference between mauri and moor is so : mauri is latin and moor is dutch and english and arabic ... therfor you can improve the article . and i did give you the needed source. but i don't think it.Aziri 10:38, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
French derives from Frank. Do those mean the same thing? - Mustafaa 19:08, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Welsh derives from a word meaning "foreigner". Do those mean the same thing? - Mustafaa 19:12, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
i don't know , i know that Mauri is Moor and differnce is : Muri is latin and Moor is germanic and arabic ... such as Français and Frensh. but that is a good reason to not write the correct article.Aziri 10:42, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
according to mustafaa is Mauri not Moor . and the article about the Mauri is not the article woch would be about the Moors. if that is realy so ,then i ill write an other article about the Mauri's . but i have firstly to ask an other users . because i m sure that Mauri just the latin name for the Moors (not latin ) such as français and Frensh. if i'm not right ,then i will the other articles about the Mauri's . and therfor i have the source of two prof. Aziri 10:59, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- If you want to write an article on the Mauri, go for it! Read Mauretania first, that has a good start. - Mustafaa 17:36, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Maures(Moor)(germ. de:Mauren) is the same as Moor(germ. de:Mohr but has not the same meaning in germany. Mohr is assoziated with Black/Brown People from africa since the colonial times:
translated by altavista:
With the term Mohr (Latin: maurus = Maure, english moor) designated one originally a Mauren, since these become quite dark membranous by sun effect, associated one with them also the black African. The Mauren controlled since the 8. Century the iberian peninsula and are even half-breeds from Berbern and negriden peoples of west Africa. Mohr applies today like also negroes as discriminating. In this connection also: Mohrenkopf, Mohr of Moerlau, Mohr of Venice
Idiom: The Mohr did its work, to which Mohr can go. (the Mohr Muley Hassan, the Mohr of Tunis, in Schillers "The conspiracy of the Fiesco to Genua")
Langenscheidt, our usual dictonary in germany, translates:
germ. -> engl. : Maure Moor Mohr Moor, blackamoor, negro engl. -> germ. : Moor Maure; Mohr
French derives from Frank. Do those mean the same thing?
take a look at Franks
--Peter Littmann 07:40, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
| Contents |
Heraldry
Should discuss Moors in heraldry. --Daniel C. Boyer 22:11, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Reference
Shouldn't there be a note on this page saying that the term "Moor", in some references, could also just mean "Muslim", "Arab", or "African"?--iFaqeer 23:36, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
See Moors (Meaning). I tried merging all this stuff about Muslim Spain into Andalus and making this Moors (Meaning)), but someone else disagreed. - Mustafaa 21:56, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
On March 23, 2005, I made an edit inserting the following reference: Some scholars propose that the characterization of the Islamic civilization in Iberia as "Moorish" is a misnomer which implies the predominance of Berber traits in the civilization, rather than Arab and Islamic ones. The Muslim conquest of Iberia was undertaken by Arab caliphates. The soldiery of the first wave of invasions was derived predominantly of Berber peoples of North Africa. That satisfies some of your concerns, I think. --AladdinSE 22:51, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
True Romance?
Anyone here seen True Romance? There's a dialogue scene about the moors and their part in italian history. Is this true? If so, I think it should be included in this article because it's very interesting. If it's not true, then I think it should be included as well, but explained that it's bogus/fiction
- EliasAlucard|Talk 23:46, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
- - The claims in True Romance are nonsense. The moslems who occupied Sicily for two centuries were overwhelmingly Semitic Arabs, and to a lesser extent North African Berbers, not black Africans. WikiEditor 09:03, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
NPOV Challenge: Afrocentrist slant
This article seems to have a somewhat Afrocentrist slant. The Moors who occupied Spain and other parts of Europe were, from an anthropological point of view, overwhelmingly Arab (Semitic, Near Eastern origin) and North African Berbers, not Sub Saharan blacks, as is often asserted by Afrocentrists. Also I request documentation or else removal of the following questionable claim made in the article:
"... The Webster's New World Dictionary identifies Moors as "a member of Moslem people of mixed Arab and Berber descent." This deletion of "black" or "Negro" from the term Moor is generally recent. Though the word "Moor" originally seems to have been meant to indicate Blacks, it in time came to be applied to Muslims in general, especially the Berbers. "
It seems tome that [precisely th eopposite is true - that the Moors have historically been understood to be Moslems of Arab Semitic and North African Berber stock, not black Africans. The idea of Moors as black Africans is what is recent. WikiEditor 09:02, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
