Talk:Prince William of Wales

Contents

1 Circumcision 2 Naming, Part the First 3 Surname 4 Naming, Part the Second 5 HRH 6 Courtesy title? 7 Girlfriend

Circumcision

The note on circumcision status is copied directly from the article on circumcision on Wikipedia.

• 209.217.75.162 09:49, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Naming, Part the First

Is Wills really Prince W. of Wales? - montréalais

Seems strange to me, too. First, I thought that there could be only one Prince of Wales at a time. Secondly, I thought that "William, Prince of Wales", not "Prince William of Wales" would be the more correct.

S.

AFAIK he's not prince of wales. He should probably be at William Arthur Philip Louis Windsor. -- Tarquin

Michael this page didn't need moving, and it certainly didn't need moving to a page with an incorrect title. Mintguy

The children of a Prince of Wales are called Prince/Princess . . . of Wales. It is the correct title. Furthermore,

• Wiki does not include royal surnames in titles, because most royals do not have surnames.

• William does, but it isn't Windsor (How many more times is this going to have to be corrected? It is been the subject of numerous conversations, and was decided by checking with Buckingham Palace!) but Mountbatten-Windsor.

Calling Prince William [William Arthur Philip Louis Windsor] is

• using the wrong name
• contrary to Wikipedia's policy on naming royals
• plainly absurd.

JTD 00:14 Feb 1, 2003 (UTC)

In answer to the "How many times" question, I suspect that the answer will be once per new wikipedian! However don't give up... -- SGBailey

Surname

Um, I think the Mountbatten-Windsor thing is wrong. Mountbatten-Windsor will only belong to the third generation after the Queen, as long as they're not in the direct line to the throne. Meaning that, if Edward has a son, HIS son will be Mountbatten-Windsor. Since Anne's children have a different last name, and since Andrew only has (so far) daughters, only Edward has a chance of having Mountbatten-Windsor children. I do think that Prince Harry's grandchildren MAY be Mountbatten-Windsors, but I'm not positive on that. -- Zoe

When I checked with the Palace they too initially were not sure, because as you know royals don't use surnames, so they don't have to think about what is the correct one to use. When Princess Anne married Captain Mark Phillips, the official notice recorded her name as Anne . . . Mountbatten-Windsor (after a lot of debate about just what 'was' her surname!) Apparently Prince Philip was most insistent that when the staff in her office type up the notice, they get it correct, ie in the above form. He was a bit peeved (or knowing Philip, he probably said 'you F*****g b******s of a XXXXXXXXX's XXXXXXXXX') that when he married Elizabeth and she became queen, the Royal Family did not change its name either to 'Mountbatten' or his suggested compromise 'Windsor and Edinburgh'. Part of the deal in 1960 was that the personal surname would be Mountbatten-Windsor, to balance his name not being used in the Royal House. I heard that 'third generation' thing too but the guy in the Palace kept coming back to Anne's name as used in 1973 (and again in 1992) as MW. And as she is first generation and directly in line, if it applied to her (and she was fourth in line in 1973) then it must apply all over. I can get back to the guys and gals in her office and in the Prince of Wales's office in St. James's Palace (if you can get them. They are in the middle of their move into Clarence House (or is it the middle of the planning/packing?) and things are supposed to be hectic/chaotic) to check.

I suppose this proves the logic in NEVER using royal 'surnames' in article names. The UK royals are probably one of the easiest to work, unlike other European royals who have quadrupal-barrelled names (quarter danish, quarter german, quarter swedish and quarter unknown!!!). If we can't get the UK Royal surnames right (if Buckingham Palace can't get the names right - and I'm not knocking them; they have been very helpful!) what chance have we got with anyone else? JTD 05:51 Feb 7, 2003 (UTC)

All this is getting very interesting. I think it's truer to say that British royals don't use surnames NOW rather than implying that they never have done. I seem to remember that when Princess Anne was single she used to sign herself "Anne Windsor". (I'll bet she was relieved to get married and have a proper surname like everyone else.) Not that this is particularly relevant to William. Deb 23:48 Feb 7, 2003 (UTC)

"because as you know royals don't use surnames"--and I would add that I really know no such Cornish pasty. Rather, it is my understanding that royals do, in fact, use a sub-category of sur-names, known as "ma'am names" or "poofter" names, depending upon whether you're on the good side of Izzy Stradlin de Fenser, 9th Earl of Barony, or, as he was known at school, in Brooklyn, "The Oil-Baron," and had ties to, among others, Saddam Hussein and The Chinese. It all gets very confusing; my good friend William the Conqueror

is most confused of all, wondering, as he often does, where he put the family agates. CorniaPatsyJones 20:54, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Naming, Part the Second

According to the British Monarchy site, the Prince of Wales is not a title for automatic succession. [See http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/about/bio_index.html]. Although Charles is the 21st person to hold the title and it is usually reserved for the male heir to the throne, it is only granted "at the sovereign's pleasure". In fact, Prince Charles did not receive the title until 1958 (and was not formally invested until he was 20). Although I agree that differentiating the heirs of Charles is difficult, Wales is not the correct term. --Westendgirl 07:15, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

To quote a respondent above:

The children of a Prince of Wales are called Prince/Princess . . . of Wales

"Prince William of Wales" doesn't mean "William who is the Prince of Wales"; we aren't saying that William is the current PoW by calling him thusly.

James F. (talk) 12:49, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

But where is the evidence that children of a Prince of Wales are called 'Prince/Princess...of Wales'? If you review protocol for addressing members of the monarchy, there is no such statement. In fact, given that the sovereign has the option of awarding the title, William may not become Prince of Wales, and Harry would never (unless William died and Charles awarded the title to him.) Where is the precedent that children of the POW are termed Prince/Prices .... of Wales? --Westendgirl 20:55, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Umm, whut?

If you look at George VI of the United Kingdom, he was "His Royal Highness Prince Albert of Wales" when his father became the Prince of Wales; when his father ascended to the throne, he lost the "of Wales" suffix, becoming "His Royal Highness The Prince Albert", as he was no longer a descendent of the current Prince of Wales, who was now his brother. Looking at Edward VIII of the United Kingdom, we see that, when his father was the Prince of Wales, he became "His Royal Highness Prince Edward of Wales", until he was automatically given the title of the Duchy of Cornwall on his father's ascension to the throne, at which he became "His Royal Highness The Duke of Cornwall"; he was invested as the Prince of Wales ("His Royal Highness The Prince of Wales") a month later. Similarly, Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom was "Her Royal Highness Princess Elizabeth of York" until her grandfather ascended to the throne, at which point she became "Her Royal Highness The Princess Elizabeth". As a female, Elizabeth was only Heir Presumptive, not Heir Apparent, so she wasn't made the Princess of Wales on her uncle's abdication and her father's rise to the throne, transitioning immediately to the title of "Queen Regnant &c." from "Her Royal Highness The Princess Elizabeth".

It's quite simple:

Event	George V	Edward VIII	George VI	Elizabeth II	Charles, PoW
Victoria dies 22.i.1901	HRH The Duke of Cornwall and York	HRH Prince Edward of Cornwall and York	HRH Prince Albert of Cornwall and York	unborn	unborn
George created PoW 9.xi.1901	HRH The Prince of Wales	HRH Prince Edward of Wales	HRH Prince Albert of Wales	unborn	unborn
Edward VII dies 6.v.1910	HM The King	HRH The Duke of Cornwall	HRH The Prince Albert	unborn	unborn
Edward created PoW 2.iv.1910	—	HRH The Prince of Wales	—	unborn	unborn
Elizabeth born 21.iv.1926	—	—	—	HRH Princess Elizabeth of York	unborn
George V dies 20.i.1936	dead	HM The King	HRH The Duke of York	HRH The Princess Elizabeth	unborn
Edward VIII abdicates 11.xii.1936	dead	HRH The Duke of Windsor	HM The King	—	unborn
Elizabeth marries 20.xi.1947	dead	HRH The Duke of Windsor	HM The King	HRH The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh	unborn
Charles born 4.xi.1948	dead	HRH The Duke of Windsor	—	—	HRH Prince Charles of Edinburgh
George VI dies 6.ii.1952	dead	HRH The Duke of Windsor	dead	HM The Queen	HRH The Duke of Cornwall
Charles created PoW 26.vii.1958	dead	HRH The Duke of Windsor	dead	—	HRH The Prince of Wales

("—" means no change to person's title as a result of the event)

In very basic terms, someone with a male-line ancestor as the current Prince of Wales is "HRH Prince Firstname of Wales" (or "HRH Princess Firstname of Wales", of course), unless they have a title themselves, in which case they are "HRH The Rank of Title". Thus it is "Prince William of Wales" and "Prince Henry of Wales", until such time as they're given a title; then, say, Harry might become "HRH The Duke of Clarence".

This is quite well established protocol.

HTH.

James F. (talk) 23:56, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

But you've only pointed us to examples that are in Wikipedia. This assumes that Wiki users were correct in setting out these titles. When I search for examples on the Internet, I can only find Wiki feeds that support the information you've provided. According to the British Monarchy (http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page2361.asp)'s information on POW, "Prince William cannot hold this title, as it is already held by the current Prince of Wales. The title is conferred by the decision of the Sovereign and not by hereditary descent". Prince William is simply HRH Prince William. Other pages on the Monarchy site also say that the POW title is not inherited. Do you have any external links to credible sources that show the protocol should be Prince William of Wales? I'm not seeking to attack you -- I just can't see where this protocol has been established. --Westendgirl 19:20, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!.

Look, read what I've said:

"Prince William of Wales" doesn't mean "William who is the Prince of Wales"; we aren't saying that William is the current PoW by calling him thusly.

[emphasis added]

For reference, see the following Google search:

"Prince William of Wales" -wikipedia (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=%22Prince+William+of+Wales%22+-wikipedia&btnG=Search)

... which is a list of non-Wikipedia-derived pages (or, possibly, infringing pages, but a glance at the first few shows this not to be so); if you're worried that this may just be clueless Americans or something, we can limit it to the UK:

"Prince William of Wales" -wikipedia site:uk (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=%22Prince+William+of+Wales%22+-wikipedia+site%3Auk&btnG=Search)

... which turns up, amongst other things:

• The Royal Household: HRH Prince William of Wales: The 21st Birthday range (http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page2358.asp)

  To mark the 21st birthday of His Royal Highness Prince William of Wales, [...]

• The Royal Household: Mailbox May 2003 (http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page2302.asp)

  [...] Princes William and Harry are formally known as Prince William of Wales and Prince Henry of Wales as their father is Prince of Wales.

• The Royal Household: The current Royal Family (http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page428.asp)

  Their grandchildren are [...] Prince William of Wales and Prince Henry of Wales [...]

• BBC News: Prince William: Reticent royal icon (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3000794.stm)

  Prince William of Wales can [...]

• BBC News: Queen Mother's funeral procession: Who's Who? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/obituaries/queen_mother/funeral_procession/whos_who.stm) [sic]

  [...] Prince Henry of Wales, Prince William of Wales [...]

• Debrett's: HRH Prince William of Wales (http://www.debretts.co.uk/royal_connections/prince_william.html)
• Debrett's: HRH Prince William of Wales (http://www.debretts.co.uk/royal_connections/prince_william_of_wales.html)

Now, I'm the first to point out that Debrett's is a tacky publication that is sometimes completely wrong, and has gone downhill rather somewhat of late, that the Royal Household's site is often riddled with errors, and that those who work at BBC News are journalists with tight deadlines who can make mistakes now and then, but I would suggest that the mountain of evidence is sufficient, in this case.

Happy?

James F. (talk) 20:19, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

James, no need to take out your frustrations on me. I was merely seeking non-Wiki sources, since, despite searching the Monarchy site myself, I couldn't find the links you produced. Since the Monarchy has indicated it's okay to use Wales and the BBC has a handbook that outlines policies for referencing royals, I think we can draw this matter to a conclusion. Thanks for producing those sources. You may want to cross-post them to the Harry thread. Tks. --Westendgirl 04:32, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That's nice, dear.

Any and all "frustrations" that you may think I feel are wholly due to your repeated asking of an already-answered question. I find that it does help to read what people have written.

James F. (talk) 08:31, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

HRH

It should be noted that some people do not recognize british nobility titles as being part of the name, such as HRH (His royal highness? higher than who? The serfs?). Thus, I suggest this be noted somewhere, since not all people may be aware of that. Christopher Mahan 01:53, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC).

These people's opposition to titles is not relevant to William; perhaps it belongs at British royalty or some similar article. User:Rdsmith4/Sig 01:55, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Courtesy title?

Why doesn't William use a courtesy title from his father, like Earl of Chester? Ddye 19:50, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

HRHs don't use courtesy titles (presumably because the courtesy title of "Prince" outranks any other courtesy title). (By the way, he couldn't use "Earl of Chester", because it's not hereditary and thus he isn't heir apparent to it. If he used anything, it would be "Lord Greenwich", as eldest son of the eldest son of the Duke of Edinburgh.) Proteus (Talk) 19:54, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wow, that was quick (4 minutes...I wonder what the record for getting a question answered is). Thanks. Ddye 19:58, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No problem. Glad to help. Proteus (Talk) 20:02, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Girlfriend

It is said that William has dated an American student at Edinburg University. Is it true ?

Siyac 12:40, 19 May 2005 (UTC)