Talk:Sega Dreamcast

Contents

1 Proposition for new Image

2 General comment on edit war

3 GD-ROM

4 Reasons why it failed

5 Problems with links

6 Reverting my URL add?

7 Xbox Sales

8 Can this be correct?

9 Page locked

10 Copyrighted material

11 Development section

12 Neutral 3rd Party Opinion on Photos

Proposition for new Image

The Grey version of Dc of Europe Image up now is taken from Amazon.co.uk, with the name. I made one from scratch. Its resolution is not as clear and it doesn't have a shiny piece on the top. Feel free to use it if the new one causes alarm. Marvelvsdc ok this is ridiculous, if Dreamcast was invented in Europe let me know. If this picture has a super high res. than the other consoles should to. Dreamcast looks grey in the picture currently up but any American/Japanese one will do.

That image is over 100K in size. What was wrong with the image that was up there the other day? While different, it looked fine to me. I'd rather go back to that or to an image of that size, but possibly with a controller like every other system picture. I can't seem to find a good one online though. K1Bond007 04:22, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Since Dreamcast was originally made in Japan, I put up one similar to the version. Dreamcast wasn't a huge success in European Sales Figures compared to Japanese Sales. The Japanese version also had a plastic shiney piece on top like the European one. It would be ok to replace a picture to the European Dreamcast in one of the articles below but to replace it for the main picture would make Sega's original console look European. It would be like me putting up NES 2, or a redesigned PS2, or a Gamecube with Wavebirds. I don't see systems made in Europe have American Pictures next to historical context, and main title. Marvelvsdc I dub this article qualified for any newspaper stand available. Let me know when it turns into an actual encyclopedic article. 07:22, June 02, 2005 (UTC) Marvelvsdc

Please stop changing the image back and forth. Lets discuss what we have before making any more changes. I uploaded a new picture which is of higher quality than the image posted on this page. It's the U.S. version, its got a controller and a VMU, etc etc. All around much better. If you have a problem, let me know. K1Bond007 20:27, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

Too many controllers images in this article. What my problem? You want to show the Dreamcast controller in four times on the article! Jesus, my image have details, a Windows CE mark that many people don't believe about this operating system in the console is real. Why you don't write about this instead of a image edit war? Other favorable point for me: joystick port details. Your image do not have this and repeat the angle of the other console image in the article.

And to finish, K1Bond007, stop write offensive scraps and words in my discuss page, as a Moderator or similar thing. When I made changes I explain in edit summary. --Mateusc 03:04, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

WTF. When did I make a personal attack or an offensive message to you? Reverting this article multiple times with Marvelvsdc is ridiculous, I stand by that. I made the comment on your discussion page because you completely AVOIDED the discussion and continued your ongoing revert war about the image without making any sort of discussion or compromise on the TALK PAGE. It was a fair move by myself and follows Wikiquette.

I will not consider your comment because you started it with bad-etiquette and apparently ignores my arguments in edit summary. --Mateusc 22:16, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

About Marvelvsdc, I want to know why simply "The image should not be European Dreamcast" as it's a rule! I'm waiting arguments e informative image if is replaced after all. --Mateusc 12:49, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It shouldn't because this is an encyclopedia not a news story. It did not debut in the original country next to the text. I have a lot of other reasons, just look on your page. And sorry, I don't take advice from corporate parasites trying to get you(who probably are one) to promote their new consoles and demote past ones. Thats what I think this fiasco is. --Marvelvsdc 13:00, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1. You just starting a Edit War as logout, anonymous? (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.125.136.245). Please, login first to make this Vandalism correct and I will report this better. I recommend to you not make this again, because this IP (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.125.136.245) made edits in your page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Marvelvsdc) demonstrating that You do not ready to use and respect the rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction) of Wikipedia.

2. You comment is just controversial, the image that you reverted do not add information, just make redundant the article (repeating controller and VMU image, repeat the angle of the console, hiden details). If this an Encyclopedia, We Need Information. No Magazine layout and diagram defaults. My image have information, Windows CE mark, joystick ports and console closeup. --Mateusc 19:43, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

On to the problems. While the picture is a nice hi-resolution, as already stated, its the European version. The American/Japanese version is different as pointed out by Marvelvsdc in his posts. I only counted 2 controllers and I don't see this as a big deal. I was in the middle of cleaning this up, I had already removed (and was considering deleting the unsourced image on the page) a couple redundant or images not need. I even moved your image to the model section where the European system is discussed. That apparently wasn't good enough because you just did a blanket revert. I don't think the Windows CE logo really matters so long as its discussed on the page and you can barely make it out at the size it is at on the page.

Oh and nice job over writing the image uploaded by myself with an image that was already uploaded to Wikipedia and one that was previously agreed upon with Marvelsdc as a compromise since I too disagreed with the European version being at the top of the article. I reverted that. Please don't do that, thats seriously not cool. I would seriously consider calling that Vandalism or as some sneaky attempt to get your way. Thanks for discussing though. K1Bond007 04:02, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

3 controller images on the article. What you want to show with this? This is redundance and your photo don't show nothing new in comparisson with the image in Technology section. I can't understand why you and the other don't like my image, it's Europe version? Yes, but it shows new Windows CE detail and focus on the console. Again: Why show three same controller images in the article? --Mateusc 22:16, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What was wrong with this revision [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sega_Dreamcast&oldid=14826648) (given that your image was renamed and thus doesn't show, but is still listed). I never had a huge problem with your image. I was trying to make a compromise on this revert war thats currently going on as you can see from my original post on the matter. I do believe that the top most image should have a picture of the controller to show the complete system, however. K1Bond007 22:51, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with about show "complete system" but the fact is your photo turn the article very redundant. We need to choose this image in GPL-GNU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dreamcast.jpg) if this is the intention instead use redundant fair use images. My image isn't redundant because it's have many differentials: It's clean, shows Windows CE mark, detailed ports of joysticks, not showing excessive controller and VMU images. The article already has 2 controller and 1 VMU images. --Mateusc 03:03, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually that image isn't GPL. It's unsourced. Thats even worse, which is why I removed it from the article yesterday. I don't think it matters how many images of controllers we have, obviously I don't want it to be excessive, but the edit I proposed was cut down and involved the NA version as well as the European one. In comparison, there are 3 controllers on [[Xbox 360], 2 of which were uploaded by you. Again the question, what was wrong with the version I proposed? K1Bond007 03:22, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Xbox 360 is an extreme newness. People can see the details and official press release images. Dreamcast isn't new and hype machine, isn't on the media and we aren't need show 3 or 2 controller images. And answering your question (already answered some times here) your image turn the article very redundant. --Mateusc 16:07, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please stop screwing with the image. I personally prefer the version that shows the full system, but changing it back and forth is rediculous! Mateusc, you are acting like a child who is mad that he isn't getting his way. The complete system is in no way redundant with the rest of the article. --Butters 16:17, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dear Butters, before making a commentary in the wikipedia, read and observe Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks and Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view. I will not consider your opnion because your don't have a solid argument and simply disagree making me a provocative aggression --Mateusc 12:49, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, I don't agree with you at all. It's not redundant and your comparison to Xbox 360 is a joke. Lets show 3 controllers there, but on Dreamcast we can't have more than 1. Theres no logic to that and the image I proposed didn't make the article redundant. I'm not even sure you looked at the version I linked above. You say its redundant, but its no more redundant than it is now. Heres another comparison. PlayStation 2 is showing 3 controllers as well as 2 pictures for both versions of it. This is ridiculous. K1Bond007 16:49, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

You continue make personal attacks because you don't have arguments about the redundance of your image. And isn't all: your image show the console in top perscpective hiden a lot of details. It's conceitual but not informative. --Mateusc 12:30, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No personal attack was made and please stop accusing me of this bullshit. I'm getting really tired of defending myself for something I haven't done. If you think you have a problem go get an admin. I've tried to settle this matter by attempting to come up with a compromise, but the version I came up with wasn't good enough for your even though it 1) had both images 2) removed a few other images to lessen the amount of controllers (even though precedent for other systems shows it doesn't matter). Continue your never ending revert war. K1Bond007 20:08, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

You can't support the discussion, making more aggressions, talking with arrogance and sadism. You don't have argument about the real informations of my image and the redundancy of yours. I will not awnser anymore personal attacks, because you just proves that you can't capable to argument and respect the system of Wikipedia. Again, this is Encyclopedia and information is all. --Mateusc 20:56, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

??? Wow.. well it appears that something has to be done here. I'll be reporting this to an admin. I'm tired of being accused of personal attacks when I haven't done anything and I'm tired of the revert war going on over an image (this isn't vandalism). Both of you guys have broken WP:3RR today. K1Bond007 21:08, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Show your ironic offensive words and the lack of encyclopedic argument to him too. --Mateusc 21:20, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

So far this image is in favor on voting three to one three being, K1Bond007, Marvelvsdc, Butters. One vote on the left is Mateusc. Proposition for a JP image stands, Euro one year and one month old release sits. God I hate resorting to Beauracratic testimonials. Marvelvsdc 16:08, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

You try the vandalizing the article, with this IP (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.125.136.245) and insert the phrase No clunky picture here (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sega_Dreamcast&oldid=14992096) on image description. I will not consider your opnion and just already report your trick to an Admin. --Mateusc 21:20, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I am in favor of also correcting image deduction with a poll. Anyone in favor of a poll please host while I take a break.--marvelvsdc 23:22, june 10, 2005 (UTC)

Of course, I suppose you consider your vandalism made in the article today 24.125.136.245 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.125.136.245) that been reported (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR#User:Mateusc_and_User:24.125.136.245.2FUser:Marvelvsdc.29). Curiously now the personal attack made by Butters and K1Bond007 you will not consider in your Pool, han? --Mateusc 22:14, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I also know the rules, and I am an older user than you. I have been here since March and you since May. I have no contempt or interest over childish, internet veering struggles. I don't care if you are just trying to give attention to yourself. I have enough of it already. Wow, big man on campus I reported you too for vandalism in reverting images from the original. marvelvsdc 23:22, june 10, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not talking about me, about you, but about your acts today 24.125.136.245 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.125.136.245) [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Marvelvsdc) that been reported (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism_in_progress#Current_alerts). Now, you just started a personal attack talking nonsense subject. You don't respect the rules and not ready to vote and considered in a Pool. --Mateusc 22:34, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Great, If I go I have copyrighted material I will take with me that I am totally liable to do. I will leave typos because I haven't copyrighted it.marvelvsdc 22:40, june 10, 2005 (UTC)

Which copyrighted material are you referring to, Marvel? And what is meant here by a "pool"? I'm copying this conversation to the bottom of the page: perhaps we could continue it there? SlimVirgin ^(talk) 23:38, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

I really don't care this much over an image guys. My stance, as of now, is the version I provided above [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sega_Dreamcast&oldid=14826648). I don't see the problem with this. Until some sort of rational discussion actually takes place or some sort of progress, you can consider me out of the discussion. Theres far too much mudslinging for me. K1Bond007 22:49, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

I would like to clarify about and 3RR act and nomination that happens today. Since I initiate to revert User:24.125.136.245 and Marvelvsdc image changes, I was look to keep the discussion, fight against that crazy reverts (because I propose the image first - the old image are forgotten and out of the discussion). This is happening in last 2 weeks. Today, K1Bond007 decided to denounce my reversions because the discussion about image changes it transformed in disrespect and personal attacks.

My proposal of image is compatible with the philosophy of the Wikipedia: provide information, showing details as the Windows CE logo. It's only this. Sincerely, I don't see reasons to change the Wikipedia into a magazine with fair use and redundant images as considered for the user K1Bond007.

Sincerely, --Mateusc 01:08, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

General comment on edit war

As far as controversies go, this one is pretty lame. The one on feces is much more interesting. Join us! Eyeon 09:13, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

GD-ROM

This page gives the capacity of a GD-ROM as 1.2 GB, whereas the GD-ROM page says 1 GB. Anyone have the official word on this?

If the whole disk was formatted in like the high-density region, it could hold 1.2 GB. Since part of it is formatted like a CD and part has no data, sparses the two regions, the high-density region can only hold 1 GB.

Reasons why it failed

When mentionning the reason the Dreamcast failed, it might be informative to mention that during the original R&D on the Dreamcast, Sega Of America also designed a console, based on 3DFX chips [4] (http://www.3dfx.com/) rather than the PowerVR [5] (http://www.powervr.com/). Sega chose the latter and simultaneously got sued by 3DFX and "offended" Electronic Arts [6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Arts)[7] (http://www.ea.com/), who owned shares in 3DFX. Sega ended up paying 3DFX a load of money and lost any chance of EA supporting them (hence no "EA Sports" title for the Dreamcast).

Also, after the launch of the Dreamcast in the US, Rambus [8] (http://www.rambus.com/) managed to stop (temporarily) the sale of the console over allegations of patent infringement (Hitachi SDRAM and DDR SDRAM memory products).

Problems with links

I feel like the link to dc forums is a pure spam link, especially since it seems to be formatted in a way for search engines to pick it up. The official Sega forums would be a better link for that spot.--Butters 19:38, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Meh i went ahead and changed it. Makes the article look better actually linking to Sega. --Butters 19:52, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Reverting my URL add?

Why was my addition of the PowerVR link removed?

(change was here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sega_Dreamcast&diff=next&oldid=10055078)

Egh, well the article needs some cleaning up, especially the second-to-last paragraph before the contents ("Sega released a board, using the same technology..."). I'll probably make the edits later tonight. --Arekku

[ Edit ] I guess other people beat me to it. Nice job. ^_^

Xbox Sales

I removed these, they are irrevelant to the Dreamcast in specific.

I agree. I also removed the Game territory figures. I don't know where those came from and I don't believe their truly relevant. K1Bond007 22:29, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Can this be correct?

CPU: SH-4 RISC CPU with 128 Bit graphic computational engine built-in (operating frequency: 206 MHz 360 MIPS/1.4 GFLOPS)

4 times faster floating point operations...?

I guess. Supposedly it can't maintain 1.4 and does only about 900 MFLOPS, but is capable of 1.4 GFLOPS. http://www.segatech.com/technical/cpu/index.html K1Bond007 19:09, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Hmm..it's still pretty damn unbelieavable (even if it is true :D). Heck, 1.4 GFLOPS is more than my comp with it's 1.6GHz processor is capable of :o

Page locked

I've locked the page following the 3RR report. I don't know the subject matter and therefore don't know what the issues are, but it seems clear, Mateus, that the consensus is currently going against you, so unless you can produce a strong argument, you should consider relenting and allowing the other image(s) to be used. As for personal attacks, I can't see any instance on this page of a personal attack from K1Bond007 as was reported, but Mateus, a couple of your comments do come close to being personal attacks e.g. "You can't support the discussion, making more aggressions, talking with arrogance and sadism."

I suggest following the majority wish in this case, getting the page unlocked, and moving on. Let me know when you want to carry on editing it. Cheers, SlimVirgin ^(talk) 23:06, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Copyrighted material

(copied from above)

I am in favor of also correcting image deduction with a poll. Anyone in favor of a poll please host while I take a break.--marvelvsdc 23:22, june 10, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not talking about me, about you, but about your acts today 24.125.136.245 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.125.136.245) [9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Marvelvsdc) that been reported (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism_in_progress#Current_alerts). Now, you just started a personal attack talking nonsense subject. You don't respect the rules and not ready to vote and considered in a Pool. --Mateusc 22:34, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Great, If I go I have copyrighted material I will take with me that I am totally liable to do. I will leave typos because I haven't copyrighted it.marvelvsdc 22:40, june 10, 2005 (UTC)

I really don't care this much over an image guys. My stance, as of now, is the version I provided above [10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sega_Dreamcast&oldid=14826648). I don't see the problem with this. Until some sort of rational discussion actually takes place or some sort of progress, you can consider me out of the discussion. Theres far too much mudslinging for me. 22:49, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

I prefer the version K1Bond007 provided because it shows the VMU. The VMU is a unique part of this console. The controller is also a part of the complete console as sold and packaged inside. I think that is important to show the main accessories. I still prefer mine a little more because I consider Sega as once being a kiddy console like the gamecube and want it portrayed in that fashion. marvelvsdc 22:49, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Dear User:Marvelvsdc/User:narvelvsdc, read the Wikipedia:Sockpuppet rule. --Mateusc 16:42, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I also know what a Web Designer is, thanks and inevitably the Dreamcast page will be change. It can't be on lockdown forever. Soon there will be a compromise. It may be tommorrow it may be in one year. Mark my words, there will be a compromise. -marvelvsdc 22:49, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

To add to the above note, a proposition to change all of the console images into a higher resolution should be underway.

Sincerely, --Mateusc 01:08, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Development section

I mentioned this in my comment for my addition of the "Development" section and my moving of the "Online" section to immediately after "Technology" (which I think is more appropriate), but the pages's history now seems to display the two edits as one and has replaced my original comment. Anyway, my sources for the "Development" section are the the web pages I provided links to and the feature on the console's history in the first issue of DC-UK magazine. --Nick R 21:19, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Neutral 3rd Party Opinion on Photos

Just been scanning through the photo edit war blah. Since there seems to be a lot of personal feeling here, thought I'd comment as a neutral 3rd party with no axe to grind. Of the two images, the one of the console alone is probably the best one to use at the top of the article. While it's not as 'clean' as the one of the console and accessories, it is better as it's a picture of the main focus of the article, and it's larger, and can be enlarged for a good look at the console. The other picture just isn't big enough, and looks a little cluttered for a top picture, but it should be used somewhere else in the article. Hope this helps calm things down a little. --Djbrianuk 10:24, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. My proposal of image always was based on information, as Windows CE mark and in the details, having the care not to become the redundant article with redundant images. I'm being pursued in a certain time for User:K1Bond007 since that I initiated my contributions in Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games and he simply took the quarrel for the personal side insisting on the lack of argument and vanity. --Mateusc 19:53, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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