Talk:Zaragoza

A Google English-language search gave 23,600 hits for Saragossa (including many historical references) and 171,000 for Zaragoza. There's lots of noise, but we're talking almost an order of magnitude. Should we throw this one over? -Montréalais 07:34, 6 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, and I got over four million pages for "Milano" even though it is indisputably "Milan" in English. Don't be a Google slave. Take into account these factors that boost the numbers you get for "Zaragoza".

• Most people are ignorant and don't know what the name is. They may read it off maps, which give the local name. The fact that historians call it "Saragossa" shows that educated people call it so.
• Most (again ignorant) people are familiar with the city through its football team, and football teams always use the local name.
• Many pages are counted as English when they are actually not.
• Many pages are not written by native speakers of English.
• A minority of people just like saying "Zaragoza", "Milano", "Italia", "München", etc. to show off, or out of some idea that it's more correct.
• The spelling "Zaragoza" found online disguises the fact that everyone pronounces it "Saragossa" anyway.

"Saragossa" is the correct name, and will be used on Wikipedia. Anyone searching for "Zaragoza" will be redirected to the correct page. The fact that lots of people don't know what it is called is just an argument for making sure there is a redirect. —Chameleon 20:43, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

1. Having done further Googling, I find that nearly all of the hits for "Milano" in the first few pages are uses of the name in clearly Italian-language contexts, such as Italian names of institutions. Even so, there are nearly identical numbers of hits for "Milan" as "Milano" (circa 3 million each). By contrast, there are presently upwards of 20 times more hits for Zaragoza than Saragossa, and many more hits in the first few pages that use it in an English-language context. Many of the links to Saragossa are in a historical context, not a current one.
2. Both of my English atlases give "Zaragoza" as the name of the city, even when giving other English-language names such as Seville, Rome, and Milan.
3. I have never heard the city called Saragossa outside of Wikipedia before now.
4. Even if we were to decide to use Saragossa as the article for the city, I deny that we ought to have the province at Saragossa (province). It is a Spanish administrative division, rarely referred to in English, and ought to use the Spanish name, just as we had Seville being the capital of the province of Sevilla before you intervened.
5. In conclusion, the general rule is to use the most common name used by speakers of English. You have admitted above that the name most commonly used by speakers of English (regardless of whether they are map-readers or footballers) is Zaragoza.

- Montréalais 15:54, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

(I deleted some out-of context conversation) Pfortuny 07:03, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Let's look at this logically, with an irrelevant example. "Czechoslovakia" gets 1 million hits. "Czech Republic" gets over 8 million hits. Obviously, the country is called the "Czech Republic" now. Google hits are, therefore, informative. </bad logic> ugen64 22:57, May 11, 2004 (UTC)

Well, yes it is. Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore, any more than Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union do. Would you please clarify your point? - Montréalais 23:05, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

He's supporting you, so just chill and accept it. —Chameleon 01:14, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Yes, in fact, we do expect you to take Wikipedia's community standards and procedures seriously, Chameleon. Editing here is a privilege — not a right. And by the way, as I said on your talk page, although you may be completely satisfied with the logic and internal consistency of your decisions regarding Zaragoza and Sevilla, your changes are in contravention of Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Please refer to those pages and if you want to propose a change, please discuss them first on the talk pages of the convention page in question. — Thanks, BCorr|Брайен 01:56, May 12, 2004 (UTC)

Who was talking about standards? —Chameleon 09:34, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

You might has resoluted the cuestion, but anyway I´m going to help you. google shows more pages with Zaragoza, simply because Zaragoza isn´t very famous, and if someone writes about it, he is Spanish. I prefer zaragoza, but I live in it and speak Spanish and I also have heard Saragossa.--FAR 22:24, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Taifas

I've been trying to find more...any, really...information about current taifas in Europe. The information I have found is rather scant. I would like to know more if anyone has knowledge of them or an idea of where I can learn more?

Location, Location, Location

Is Zaragoza, Spain, a compromise solution reached during last year's move wars? Either Zaragoza or Saragossa would be closer to policy, so I'm assuming that's the reason. –Hajor 15:39, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes, regardless of whether we want to call it Zaragoza or Saragossa (I vote for the first one), we ought to lose the disambiguation from the title. This is a pretty clear case of primary topic. Alas, yet again I find the target has an edit history and I'm not an admin, so if one is passing through could they please do the necessary. — Trilobite (Talk) 00:17, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Done. –Hajor 15:46, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)