User talk:Chameleon

E-mail (debate, personal comment, etc.) (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Emailuser&target=Helpful_Dave)

Leave message here (help request, thanks, etc.) (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Helpful_Dave&action=edit&section=new)

The three commandments:

Thou shalt not troll here
Thou shalt not do that annoying criss-cross thing whereby I write on your page and you reply on mine making it impossible for outsiders to follow. Choose one page for the discussion.
Thou shalt not annoyingly duplicate comments on article talk pages. Choose to keep the discussion there or bring it to my talk page. Not both at the same time.

Archives: User talk:Chameleon/Helpful Dave, User talk:Chameleon/Chamaeleon.

Skin Yard

Chameleon, why do you keep reverting to Silversmith's version on Skin Yard. You know the albums do not need to be merged to the band page. I wouldn't like to report you here too (as I did with Silversmith). -- Mike Garcia | talk 17:03, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Silversmith's idea is a good one. The albums don't "need" to be merged and they don't "need" to be separate articles. It is simply neater and more helpful to have all the info on this obscure band on one page. There are important singers, historic figures and key world events that get a single article, or nothing. Skin Yard can have a whole series of articles if and when they reform and gain some notability. You have refused to get into discussion on the matter until it was too late: you have caused us unnecessary work by making us revert you, and you have broken the three-revert rule. Chameleon 17:14, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration case

Umm. You don't think that this is, just perhaps, a little hasty, do you?

I expressly requested community input on the topic we were discussing; using Jimbo's Committee isn't really 'community', is it?

Anyway, I look forward to actual discussion on this matter.

Yours,

James F. (talk) 01:20, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

No, you don't. You are acting in bad faith. Stop trolling on my talk page. Chameleon 08:43, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Hello!

Your comments about your former username elicited from me a burst of laughter. Ground 22:39, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Heheheh. — Chameleon 14:20, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Peck!

heh. That got a smirk from me. I just looked at the /diff so I knew right away what was up, but your edsum was right on the mark. Sometimes a bit of good-natured vandalism is in order, and the discussion on Talk:Jesus lately is a poster child for my claim. :-) Tomer ^TALK 00:15, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

Heheheh. — Chameleon 14:20, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Sockpuppet proposal

It is very well that people think that this is already policy, but the point is that it isn't. Presently, people are NOT held accountable for the actions of their sockpuppets. Even if you think they are. If you think they SHOULD be, I wholeheartedly agree, that is the point here. R adiant _* 14:16, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Which policies are currently worded in such a way as to let sockpuppets off the hook? — Chameleon 14:19, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Argh, I've just seen that you said that both here and on that page. One or the other, please! — Chameleon 14:21, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Che, nano

Take a look at Che; I've made a few changes regarding our previous talk.

BTW. according to [1] (http://www.elsmuntells.com/traductor/html/delcatal.htm), cha is the (non-standard) form in the Ebro Delta. Ejrrjs | What? 20:29, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Xe, parlen raro allà! — Chameleon 11:32, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Neruda

I've taken you up on the very generous offer you made on the Talk page of Pablo Neruda to use one of your translations; I've just added "Sonnet II" to the article. Does it look ok?

Of late, I have been reading Adam Feinstein's biography of Neruda and I am keen to bring this article up to Featured Article status, the current, ahem, ideological battle now being waged over it notwithstanding. Any suggestions or contributions you would care to make would be most welcome. I'm at around year 1940 in the book now, so additions to the later years from my part will come shortly. Ciao bello, -- Viajero 15:36, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

OK, great! — Chameleon 11:32, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Dreadlocks

First, let's talk about reverts. Don't simply revert a page if there is one edit you disagree with and several other reasonable edits. Revert the page and leave in the necessary edits (i.e. when I renamed the links to their actual names).

Secondly, Wikipedia has a format for adding picture. As a visual medium, the addition of pictures is not random, nor is the placement insignificant to how the article looks. Your placement of the picture makes the article look like crap, that was what was meant by "poorly placed".

As for the picture itself, it is a crappy picture. I'm not being racist in saying that, in fact you may look into the beginning of the stupid argument on the Dreadlocks talk page to see that I disagreed with deeceevoice's categorization and left the argument because it was getting retarded. I have no problem with a picture of a white man on this page, it's the fact that the article itself doesn't necessitate two pictures, and the one with the black guy is better. I'm sorry if your friend doesn't get to be on Wikipedia, I really am, it's a complete shame, even if I don't really care. The picture is amaturish and poorly lit, while the one currently on the page is of much better quality. Wikipedia is not the place to celebrate your friends and their crappy hairstyles, it is an encyclopedia and should be treated as such. --The Grza 07:28, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Don't copy your comments both here and on the relevant page, please. —

Chameleon 11:06, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Ahoy. Did Stephens agree to specific text of a license in your e-mail exchange?--The Grza 20:20, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

He didn't mind whether it went under the text of the GFDL or just totally public domain. I chose to put a GFDL tag on because that was more in line with his previously expressed desire to be credited. — Chameleon 21:10, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Well done on getting the permissions - looks like a result all round. When getting permission like this, its a good idea to also copy the relevant potion of the email/etter with dates to the image discussion so that the license can be verified. -- Solipsist 21:56, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I am still in communication with the photographer. I'm trying to get a higher-resolution version from him. — Chameleon 22:14, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

To be or not to be

Hey Chameleon, that was FAST! Thanks for getting involved with the new "to be" article. Please stick with it until the Romance section looks complete. I didn't realise there was already an article on Romance copula, but hopefully this comparative piece will nevertheless be of interest to Romantic people like you as well as us macho Germanic types. --Doric Loon 21:48, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Hey, we Latin types are macho!

Now, since there is already an article on the Romance copula, the Romance section in your article should just be a short summary and not go into any depth. You should be able to find all the info you need at Romance copula. — Chameleon 21:56, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Hewwo

I've got a new signature, I'm so sad. --Silversmith Hewwo 18:01, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

thanks for your welcome message

I appreciate it.

What I don't appreciate is that you accuse me of using different accounts. I only have this one user account, and I recommend that you refrain from this kind of imputations. Thanks. Pharlap 15:19, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Using different accounts is not necessarily nefarious activity, so I didn't think I was levelling a nasty accusation. I also thought it was fairly clear that you use several accounts because I have seen photographs of the same person (an Indian guy named Raman, presumably you) uploaded from both your account and the others that I mentioned. It seemed quite obvious that the accounts belonged to the same person. OK, maybe there is some other explanation. In any case, you might want to read my comments on Talk:Dreadlocks. — Chameleon 15:31, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but my name isn't Raman, I'm neither Indian nor a "guy", and I never uploaded any photographs of Indian men from my account (or any other guys with dreadlocks (unlike you)). I suggest that you check my contributions to wikipedia more carefully before you voice false accusations. The only reason why I contributed a comment to Talk:Dreadlocks was because somebody submitted an RfC. Right now I don't have much free time at my hands to discuss or to edit the article, but I might return to it in near future. Pharlap 18:05, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Ah sorry, the photos were uploaded by the two other accounts I mentioned. Your account has more edits. You made edits mentioning India and you had a blank user page too, so you seemed to be associated. Sorry about that. You might consider making a user page, so that you have more of a precise identity. — Chameleon 18:17, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad that we could clear this up. Apology accepted. Pharlap 18:23, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Ann Coulter article

In response to: "I see that you seem to be interested in preventing right-wing morons from destroying articles they don't like. Call on me if you ever need to revert an article to a good version without violating the three-revert rule. Chamaeleon 15:43, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)" - a number of right-wing ideologues are trying to dominate the Ann Coulter article, incensed by my addition of a paragraph of accusations of her racism. It's not a huge deal at the moment but I'd just like another sane individual to keep tabs on the page if possible. --Tothebarricades.tk 00:23, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Ideologues dominating an article? Sounds like a case for Chameleonman! NPOV will win the day. — Chameleon 00:46, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Spoken Wiki

Thanks for your kind words and the Barnstar. I'm glad you've enjoyed the article and my (strong) California accent. I'm behind in new production, hope to record some more articles soon. The encouragement helps. Cheers, -Willmcw 17:02, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. You might like to take a look at the proposal I made at Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals#Spoken. — Chameleon 17:13, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Me too - thanks very much for the barnstar, I never thought I'd get an award for being gobby (anglo:talkative) :-) I haven't recorded any new ones for a while, but you've kinda inspired me! Thanks Craigy (talk) 13:28, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

Don't mention it. I've added you both to User:Silversmith/The_Fabdabulous_Wikipedians_page. I hope you don't mind. — Chameleon 13:37, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Photo star

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the photographer's barnstar - shame it wasn't actually for my photos - but hey, I will take whatever's going :) -- Solipsist 18:39, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Ah, but it goes without saying that they are fabulous ;) — Chameleon 19:01, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

On a similar note, in addition to your suggestion for a spoken barnstar, is there not an interwiki or translator's barnstar? -- Solipsist 19:11, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Not as far as I know, and there probably should be something to cover those valuable areas of work (which I haven't been into for ages unfortunately). — Chameleon 19:14, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

But since you are well known in those circles, you would be well placed to introduce it and award the first stars.

By the way, are you aware that you are already a Fabdabulous Wikipedian? Given the criteria, it looks like that page might grow into quite a long list, but you are one of the first to be added. -- Solipsist 21:13, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Missing image
Erin&David.jpg

This is how close we are

Yes, Erin added me and herself first because she doesn't know what other people have done. I think she should perhaps raise the standards. You should need five featured images instead of just one for example. Actually, I saw she was up to something on her laptop, but she wouldn't show me until she had finished. — Chameleon 21:22, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Schuks - I didn't realise there was such a close connection. Then again, there is nothing wrong with nepotism - so long as you keep it in the family. -- Solipsist 21:31, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

French Revolution

Thanks for the assistance on the spelling, I didn't think until halfway through the article about the various European vs. American spellings (e.g.: center/centre, realized/realised, etc.) At least I avoided the French words (it's all Greek to me!). Again, Thank you.

Guy M/LV ^(praise) 20:52, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Glad to be of help. ;) — Chameleon 20:58, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Image:Trikvetra.JPG

Now, there is a copyright tag on the image. Sorry to have kept you waiting.--Wiglaf 20:25, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I've moved the image to the Commons now, and made a close-up version of it too. I've also made an audio version of Triquetra. — Chameleon 22:11, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Languages?

After reding your interesting user page, I was wondering how can you be a native speaker of 4 languages. Electricmoose- Electrifying 14:40, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The guide for the language templates says that the language code without a number is to be used both by native speakers and people who have a comparable level of fluency. Unfortunately, some of the text displayed by these templates when they are actually used implies that the person is in fact a native speaker. For example, the French and Spanish templates say "is a native speaker". The Italian one gets it right, saying "native-level knowledge". I have commented on this, but nobody seems to have taken notice. I may have to edit the templates myself. — Chameleon 15:09, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Spanish adjectives

Have you ever considered contributing this to [guide to the Spanish language (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Spanish|WikiBooks)]? - Mgm|^(talk) 22:02, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

I'd come across that. I thought I'd deal with Wikipedia first. Thanks for the link. :) — Chameleon 22:07, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and could you please write a summary before moving stuff to a sub article. The Spanish grammar page is starting to look empty. Mgm|^(talk) 22:04, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

I know. I'll do that in a minute. Or... division of labour: why don't I deal with the new articles, and you write the summaries? — Chameleon 22:07, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've done some work on the ten articles that we have now. I'll tidy them up more tomorrow. I intend to make ten featured articles out of them. :) — Chameleon 01:48, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've added summaries now. Feel free to improve them. — Chameleon 10:10, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

First name disambiguation pages

Actually, on the subject of the Noam page, there is something I would like to discuss with you. Some users are currently going through first name disambiguation pages throughout Wikipedia, seeking to either remove names or to outright delete them, as for example with Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Alessandra. These users cite the following text in the Wikipedia:Disambiguation policy:

In most cases, do not list names of which Title is a part, unless the persons are very frequently referred to simply by their first or last name (e.g. Shakespeare, Galileo).

I believe that part of the policy should be changed. The reasons include those I've already stated in my comments on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Alessandra. To elaborate further, I believe this policy is inherently contradictory to the policy on Wikipedia:Redirect, which states that redirects should not be deleted if:

They aid searches on certain terms.
Someone finds them useful. Hint: If someone says they find a redirect useful, they probably do. You might not find it useful — this is not because the other person is a liar, but because you browse Wikipedia in different ways.

To see how this situation is similar to that for first-name disambiguation pages, we can consider the page Noam, which serves as a perfect example. The article started out as a redirect to Noam Chomsky (who is commonly known as Chomsky, rather than by his first name). This page was then changed to a redirect to Noam Federman, at which point the redirect began to be changed back and forth between Noam Chomsky and Noam Federman. The obvious solution to this edit conflict was to turn the redirect page into a disambiguation page for people named Noam.

By the logic of the policy quoted above on Wikipedia:Redirect, the redirect should not be deleted. But that leads to disputes over the most famous usage of a particular name. Disambiguations prevent exactly this problem, yet by the logic of the policy quoted above from Wikipedia:Disambiguation, the disambiguation page that solves this problem should be deleted!

This is why the policy stated above on Wikipedia:Disambiguation is poorly-thought out and unacceptable. Would you be willing to join me in pointing out these concerns on the talk page for Wikipedia:Disambiguation and working to change the policy so that first name disambiguation pages are acceptable? Please let me know. Thanks.

—Lowellian (talk) 13:26, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I think that, in general, redirect pages are not necessary for first names. That's why I just reverted Mrfixter's POV pushing instead of creating a disambig. However, as my message of thanks shows, when problem users such as that refuse to stop reverting, someone like you stepping in and creating a disambig is the only solution (other than simply blocking the offending user). In this particular case, a crude Google test shows us that "Noam Chomsky" (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Noam+Chomsky%22) is about 1,800 times more notable than "Noam Federman" (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Noam+Federman%22). There was no contest. — Chameleon 13:36, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Spanish grammar

Hi Cham! Could you please take a look at Spanish grammar's talk page? There are a few things I think we need to correct.

BTW, I found an interestin page (http://www.apoyolingua.com/dequeismo.htm) on queísmo and dequeísmo. --Mariano 08:25, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)

Yes, I'd already seen that and made some changes. As for queísmo/dequeísmo, I'll include a section on that soon. Thanks. :) — Chameleon 08:59, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Merging bionicles

...is a good idea imho and would not require a lengthy VFD process. See also WP:FICT, Wikipedia:Merge and WP:BOLD. Yours, R adiant _>|< 10:19, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

I think all such fictional nonsense should be merged, and I have tried to do so in the past, and the article creators get annoyed. The next time that I feel I can steel myself up for a fight, I'll do some merging. :) — Chameleon 10:10, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

wp600 not admins

Hi - I see you added yourself to my list of prolific but not admin users. The only reason you weren't on it was because of the date of the data I used to create it. I'm not sure I'll spend the energy to keep it up to date (should be redone every time somebody reposts WP:1000). I am quite distressed at how hostile wikipedia has become - this is one of several things I'm doing to try to fix it. -- Rick Block (talk) 15:38, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, some people have been very hostile towards me. Never mind. — Chameleon 10:10, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Anarchism (anti-state) and Anarchism (socialist)

Thanks for the support. Unfortunately, I'm now a bit worried about McCandlish's third corollary to the Wilcox-McCandlish law. (But that needed saying, don't you think? The appeal to motive was particulary egregious.) --cesarb 21:18, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't know whether using reason actually works or not on Wikipedia, but it's worth a try. Fallacious and bad-faith argumentation is certainly highly effective. — Chameleon 10:10, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Caracazo

I don't why I feel like I have to say this, but you're welcome. Thanks and regards, --Jdiazch 22:02, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vale. Si quieres sugerir otro artículo, lo traduciré del castellano al inglés. — Chameleon 10:10, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the welcome to the Spoken Wikipedia WikiProject. I hope my voice will be fine for the job but as said, when I get a microphone, I'll post a sample and if it makes people scream in terror, I won't participate. Out of interest, where are you from?
— Peter McGinley 13:49, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm from London. I noticed that you are an Aussie like my girlfriend. I'm always happy to see non-American participants in WP:SPOKEN. — Chameleon 14:19, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Anti-globalism and anti-semitism

Hi there, I've been making some edits to the Anti-globalization and Anti-Semitism page, with the aim of slimming down the article and making its premise a little more sensible, as I don't think a VfD will ever succeed on this one (perhaps unfortunately). I've reordered it, and hopefully the reorder will help reduce the length to something a lot shorter. I'm trying to show that the issue is about conflation of anti-globalization groups with nationalist groups, and that this is largely the doing of the nationalist groups. I'm of the opinion that the Klein article has a point, but is being taken totally out of context when put with the piece by Mark Strauss, which is highly anti-arab and anti-left.

I would appreciate your opinion of the changed format, as I notice you've done a lot of work saving the Chomsky article from vandalism. Comment here or on my user page if you don't feel like wading back into the debate. I'd also like to do some work on New anti-Semitism, but I don't even know where to start. I'm trying to work to check a lot of the sources on these types of articles, as I think there's an inherent problem with the sourcing information here - there are simply to many right-oriented publications/journals/thinktanks in comparison to the left - they all just reinforce oneanother and it means you can source any ridiculous claim you want ie. 'Hugo Chavez is a cannibal' (I made this one up) because several right-wing newspapers decide to write about it. illWill 21:45, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've been trying to steer away from the articles on that subject, as the fact that a few extremists have taken them over just makes my blood boil. — Chameleon 07:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't blame you, I'm starting to get quite stressed out with the bias of the mass-media being replicated here - it really harms the credibility of the project. Unfortunately, there is a dedicated group of users who will systematically demonise any (or even any implied) criticism of Israel as anti-semitic. The new anti-semitism article is disasterous. Oh well. I'll keep trying illWill 13:38, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Unmasked

Hi Chameleon,

This story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4087370.stm) isn't about about you is it Chameleon? The picture doesn't look quite right, but he seems to be good with languages, and you have been known to use a few different aliases/usernames :-) -- Solipsist 22:03, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh dear. — Chameleon 07:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Mumbai IPA

I saw your edit to Mumbai. Could ou do the same to India, Bharat and Hindustan on the India page? Thanks. =Nichalp (Talk)= 06:28, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'll give it a go. What syllable is stressed in "Hindustan" and "Bharat"? — Chameleon 07:17, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've added transcriptions for the three words. For "India", my transcription simply reflects standard English pronunciation. For "Bharat", I got my information from the article on Devanāgarī. For "Hindustan", I put an anglicised pronunciation; I don't know the Hindi or Persian pronunciation. — Chameleon 07:23, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for doing it. Unfortunately I can't read the IPA text, but hopefully in time someone might correct if it is wrong. Regards, =Nichalp (Talk)= 08:57, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

You could perhaps make an audio recording. — Chameleon 09:17, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sadly, my microphone doesn't seem to work. =Nichalp (Talk)= 09:49, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Buy a new one! They're cheap! — Chameleon 19:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Compromise

No one is hiding anything on Fidel Castro. The rightists want to put a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense about Castro onto the page, as they do on every page about figures of the left. They want to say that Castro systematically represses opposition in Cuba. What they don't want to do is provide sources for that or for their other assertions. I presume you are trying to "balance" the page, but the two POVs that are in need of balancing are those of 172 (a moderate, generally) and Kapil (an extreme rightist), where one is the outcome of scholarship and the other of reading blogs. I'm no apologist for Castro. I think that this article, as all others in WP, should give the facts and represent its subject, and views about him, fairly. However, there is no requirement in doing that simply to print the screeching bullshit that people like Kapil read on the web. Grace Note 06:36, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree, but I don't see how the comment about suppressing domestic opposition is "bullshit", even if Kapil/Trey/etc clearly inserted it for hate-based reasons. — Chameleon 07:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Microphone

Hi Chameleon, sorry for the tardy reply, but I haven't been able to locate my microphone (must have lent it out to someone -_-). So I can't really contribute any recordings... Sorry about that. -- ran (talk) 13:10, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Everyone is having microphone problems around here! Hey, a new one only costs a couple of euros! Never mind :) — Chameleon 15:27, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What the?

Hey, are you using the internet at work? --Silversmith Hewwo 16:14, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Obviously! — Chameleon 19:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wiktionary CJK articles

Hi Chameleon.

I just reverted your changes to 無 and 无 over on the English Wiktionary. At the top of the articles we list all of the variants or alternate forms, independant of whether it's in Chinese, Japanese, or some other use. Down under the heading "Chinese Hanzi" we put whether it's Traditional or Simplified and link to the other counterpart. The reason is that there are other kinds of variants, among the Japanese traditional and simplified forms. Often there is unexpected overlap between how the various languages see the various alternate forms. See 劍, which is not as complicated as it can be. — Hippietrail 13:33, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK. Actually I was just going to change "alternate" into the correct English "alternative", and then thought "while I'm here, I might as well be more specific". — Chameleon 13:37, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bharat and Hindustan

Would this be of any help? Bhaarath (h somewhat silent) and Hindoosthaan. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:10, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. — Chameleon 11:25, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

SpaTra

Template:SPATRAvoter

Hogeye on RFC

Please help out: User:CesarB/RFC/Hogeye. --Tothebarricades 19:34, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I've voted. — Chameleon 19:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Chomsky talk

I think we can get plenty of precision without writing Chomksy: Trey's link cites the exact FBIS publication which carried his supposed speech. If you want to write him, fine. But a trip to the library is probably called for now. DanKeshet 21:25, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I wrote an e-mail, but didn't send it, because I first re-read what Chomsky actually said following his trip (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/10869) and most of what I wanted to know has been clarified. In that account, he says much of what he was supposed to have said in the fabricated speech. For example, he expresses enthusiasm for the grassroots revolutionary achievement of the Vietnamese people, and mentions the book by Le Duan. He doesn't say that the people of Vietnam "will win", but does mention that he saw "Quyet Thang"—"determined to win" carved in the hills. I therefore think that it is clear that the alleged speech is a fairly good approximation of his views, despite being very different from his usual style. The fact that it is so similar to an article published by the man makes me 100% sure that Chomsky is to be believed when he says he never made such a speech. I mean, why deny saying something on radio Hanoi whilst directing us towards practically identical comments published by him in the US? That wouldn't be a very good cover-up. The only explanation is that the speech is a fabrication.

It would be interesting to know whether it was fabricated by right-wingers to discredit him, or by over-enthusiastic Vietnamese who felt it was OK to paraphrase him and present it as his exact words. I am also highly suspicious of the idea of Chomsky making a speech on radio Hanoi for the simple reason that Chomsky doesn't speak Vietnamese. Is this supposed to be a translation of things said by Chomsky in Vietnam? If so, these are not his exact words (which would explain the use of un-Chomsky-like vocab like "proletariat") and we should ignore them. It would be interesting to see what you find at the library. I don't have access to an English-language library here in Spain. — Chameleon 22:12, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

At this point, I think it's clear that the further research we're doing is mainly to satisfy our own curiousity. Even if it's 100% authentic, it's not exactly stirring praise for the North Vietnamese regime. But, did you see what I dug up at the Virtual Vietnam library? An OCR version is posted at User:DanKeshet/Chomsky in Vietnam. DanKeshet 23:32, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

I actually think that the NY Review article is more positive about the Communists than the alleged speech. We should quote the article only, and drop all references to the dodgy speech. — Chameleon 23:36, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My RFA

Thank you for supporting my RFA. Guettarda 00:24, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Don't mention it. — Chameleon 19:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I like languages

But you're better at them :) You might prefer to use the {babel-10} template instead of listing your languages in a big custom table like that. You'll have to drop the duplicate text saying you're a native english speaker though. Nicholas 09:19, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, it's not really very customised. I just used {{Subst:Babel-10}}, and added the extra text. I didn't subst the templates inside it. — Chameleon 11:08, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Mind Benders

Hello! I've noticed your interest in creating logos, barnstars, or your past artistic ability! Thus, I just wanted to let you know that the pre-round, an artistic competition, is now open at Wikipedia:Mind Benders (Shortcut: WP:MIND)! The competition is open to everyone and is seeking a logo/trophy, similar to Barnstars, to be placed on every winner's page. We urge you to help us out and submit an entry! Afterwards, the normal rounds, each consisting of ten or more fun, logical, brain-stimulating questions will open. Why don't you give it a try when it opens! Look forward to seeing your contribution. Thanks, Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 21:50, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'll see what I can do! — Chameleon 19:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Learn Hindi?

Template:Ruby notice Since you know so many languages, why don't you take a shot at basic Hindi? The Hindi script (devanagiri) is very accurate as far as speaking is concerned. We both can communicate the pronounciation of a word using devnagiri. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:32, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

OK, if you need me to do any more words, just give the pronunciation in Devangari and I'll learn how each letter is pronounced. I don't think I'll be learning Hindi any time soon though, because I'm trying to perfect my Chinese first. — Chameleon 16:35, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That's exactly what I meant. I'll give you the devnagiri rendering for any words. Chinese is a difficult language is it not? =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:03, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

对，太难！ — Chameleon 18:06, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

非常困难! =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:15, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Well done, heheheh. You might be interested to know that I've created a template to make it easier to read Chinese on Wikipedia:

Template:Ruby Template:Ruby Template:Ruby Template:Ruby。 — Template:Tl

OK I cheated. I don't know Chinese. I used the Google translate to decipher your reply. :) =Nichalp «Talk»= 08:07, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar

Missing image
Spoken_Barnstar.png
Image:Spoken_Barnstar.png

I hereby present you with this barnstar for all the hard work you've been doing with spoken articles! Kim Bruning 14:44, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! But, hey, its Image:Spoken_Barnstar.png, not Image:Barnstar.png! — Chameleon 14:48, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cool, updated! And you deserve it for making such cool new barnstars too! Kim Bruning 17:20, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

<blushes/> — Chameleon 19:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Trey

If you'd take a look at his latest work on Howard Zinn and A People's History of the United States, I'd appreciate it. Hopefully the ArbCom will begin moving quicker on this one. RadicalSubversiv E 20:02, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wallpaper

Hey, what do you think of Category:Featured desktop backgrounds? — Chameleon 17:14, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I noticed you actively tagging many of the FPs on my watchlist this afternoon. I think the category itself is a fine idea, although it seems a little odd to have a category for Featured desktop backgrounds without having one for Featured pictures. Of course then you would expect cat:Fdb to be the intersection/subcat of cat:FP and cat:Backgrounds.

On the downside, I think the template notice on the image description page is a little obtrusive and somewhat unnecessary. Anyone who finds this idea useful is best off browsing the gallery on the category page.

Also I'm not sure that tagging with this template is something I'm likely to manage whilst promoting FPs – the task list for promoting FPs is already too long. However, there would be no harm in people adding this sort of tag, or perhaps just the category, at a later date. -- Solipsist 20:09, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No category for Featured pictures? Yes there is. Category:Featured desktop backgrounds is a subcategory of Category:Wikipedia featured pictures. I don't think we need a category for images that are the right aspect ratio to be backgrounds, but aren't featured pictures. To be good wallpaper, an image has to have both right aspect ratio and be very attractive, so my category is restricted to featured pictures.

I like having the template message on the image description page. Most people will never notice it otherwise. If you think it's too big, you can edit it.

Don't worry about adding the tag to new images. I'll do that. — Chameleon 20:31, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Show's what I know — I should have checked the cats on a non-wallpaper FP :-)

For 'background' you should know that, being somewhat techie, I'm personally not a fan of desktop wallpapers. I rarely see my desktop - a browser with Wikipedia is usually expanded to full screen. Even without that, the concept of wallpapers on computers is largely broken. Most images are arranged to place the point of interest near the centre of the picture (or better on the rule of thirds), whilst if you have any application open that's the part of the desktop that is obscured.

There is an argument for using abstract images, textures and patterns which have edge interest - for a while I used have a sample of William Morris wallpaper as a rather nice tiled background - so Image:Frogspawn closeup.JPG is quite a good choice. However all background images tend to cause paging, so given how rarely I see my desktop, I usually just go with a flat colour. If you choose RGB:(58,117,196) you can claim it is a reproduction of a painting by Yves Klein (and it is surprisingly close to the default Windows blue desktop).

Further, the the days of 4:3 aspect ratios for screens are beginning to go. Widescreen monitors are becoming common (even seen them on laptops). What's more, these days there are probably already more background images used on mobile phones and a lot of those have a portrait format.

One the size of the template message, the main point of the image description page is to describe the image, give its source and attribution etc. With too many boilerplate templates, that is liable to get overshadowed. It might be a better idea to use a modified version of the Template:Tl template, which adds a small [4:3] icon and a link to the category.

In any case, all that aside, I know that many people have a strong desire to customise their possesions (preserve us from mobile ring-tones) and background images are a big part of that for computers. So as I say, its a nice idea in general, and if it encourages people to think more about contributing image, its fine by me. -- Solipsist 22:36, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

RfA concern

I'm concerned about the lack of judgement shown by this edit: it's very hard to prove that one is not anti-semitic while complaining about zionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ANeo-Nazism&diff=12103693&oldid=12101254), and I think he should explain a little more fully. — Chameleon 12:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'd be happy to explain this and any edit that I make. (You'll have to pardon me if this is brief, I was writing you last night when my computer crashed. What I wrote you in the lost letter was better sourced. Oh well.) In this instance, I was responding to an editor who volunteered that his group (American Fascist Party AFP) was not anti-semitic. I took a look at the newsletter on their website and found that the banner headline was strongly anti-zionist, and that there was no anti-anti-semitic, or pro-semitic text anywhere to offset the impression. That's when I made the reply you're asking about. Anti-semitism and anti-zionism are not the same thing. But when discussing fascist/nazi groups there is a natural presumption of anti semitism, and the AFP's anti-zionist approach does nothing to dispel that. I see you added a note about Germany, but the AFP traces its root more to the Italian fascist tradition than to the German. I don't know if that answered your question. Cheers, -Willmcw 09:29, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Well, the note about Germany was simply an analogy. It can easily be adapted to "it's very hard to prove that one is not anti-Italian while complaining about Fascism", which is on the same level of logic as "it's very hard to prove that one is not anti-German while complaining about Nazism", "it's very hard to prove that one is not anti-Jew while complaining about Zionism", "it's very hard to prove that one is not anti-American while complaining about Dubya" and "it's very hard to prove that one is not anti-Mongolian while complaining about Genghis Khan". The problem is not that you decided that the scum who wrote the neo-fascist site were Jew-haters (they probably are), but that the your zeal in denouncing such (highly denounceable) groups seems to have led to your making the logically absurd statement which I criticised. — Chameleon 09:41, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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